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The Commuter Bike Redesigned and Electrified

pogue.blogs.nytimes.com

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Re: The Commuter Bike Redesigned and Electrified

#31

Post by po »

Derbasti wrote: post #24
tzs wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have not seen any electric bicycle that offered any real advantage to a normal muscle-operated one. Some people don't have showering facilities at work, or do not want to carry a change of clothes with them. An electric bike is less likely to produce a stinky cyclist.

Most electric bicycles only enhance your own pedaling. This makes you faster, but it won't make you sweat less as you can still exert the same force (only to greater effect). In other words, if sweating is the problem, ride slower. Personally, I ride slowly to work, and fast back .

This makes no sense. I've seen women in skirts blasting up a hill by my house with a kid in a bike seat that would leave me huffing and puffing at any speed. They don't even have to get off the seat.

The enhanced pedaling makes you stronger not just faster. That means less sweating.

Re: The Commuter Bike Redesigned and Electrified

#32

Post by simonsarris »

Derbasti wrote: post #26
othello wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a matter of fact, bicycles are one of the oldest and most refined technologies available to us. Bicycles can hardly be considered an old technology. While Da Vinci had already sketched some designs in the late 15th century [1], the first prototypes could not be built before the early 19th century. The first recognizable version of the current chain-driven models was only produced in 1885. [2] The chain-driven bicy…

Show me another widespread technology that exists since the late 1800s and that has not been completely replaced by another technology. Most technologies get replaced by newer 'disruptive' technologies in rather short times (think gasoline vs. steam vs. electricity for trains or turbine vs. gasoline for planes). The 'driving force' for bicycles has stayed virtually the same (human muscles), but the transmissions and…

> Show me another widespread technology that exists since the late 1800s and that has not been completely replaced by another technology.

There have got to be hundreds.

Traffic lights and air brakes, 1868

Four-stroke internal combustion engine, 1876

toilet paper, 1880

Rayon, 1884

Steam turbine, 1884

Gas-powered automobile and motorcycle, 1885

dish-washer, Coca-cola (is that an invention?), 1886

radar, contact lenses, 1887

AC motor/transformer, 1888

cordite, 1889

escalator, 1891

zipper, 1893

Re: The Commuter Bike Redesigned and Electrified

#33

Post by ntoshev »

That's too far from the bike concept and way too expensive.

I may try electrifying my bike, a local guy does this and it looks reasonable. You can see the pictures here:

http://prodavalnik.com/sglobyavam-elektricheski-velosipedi-p...

For the electro-motor, inverter, controls and batteries you pay:

1. 250W motor 36V+ lead-acid battery (3 х 12V 9Ah)- 300 €

2. 250W motor 36V+ lead-acid battery (3 х 12V 14Ah)- 323 €

3. 250W motor 36V+ li-ion battery (36V 10Ah)- 524 €

4. 250W motor 36V+ lithium iron phosphate battery (36V 12Ah)- 633 €

4. 250W motor 36V+ lithium iron phosphate battery (36V 15Ah)- 790 €

5. 500W motor 36V+ lead-acid battery (3 бр.х 12V 9Ah)- 338 €

6. 500W motor 36V+ lead-acid battery (3 бр.х 12V 14Ah)-363 €

7. 500W motor 36V+ lithium iron phosphate battery (36V 12Ah)- 674 €

8. 500W motor 36V+ lithium iron phosphate battery (36V 15Ah)- 830 €

9. 800W motor 48V+ lithium iron phosphate battery (48V 15Ah)- 980 €

10. 1000W motor 48V+ lithium iron phosphate battery (48V 15Ah)- 1025 €

Range is 30-80 km and you can always pedal more. I think this product could be a hit, with a bit better design and manufactured at scale.

Re: The Commuter Bike Redesigned and Electrified

#34

Post by adolph »

simonsarris wrote: post #32
Derbasti wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me another widespread technology that exists since the late 1800s and that has not been completely replaced by another technology. Most technologies get replaced by newer 'disruptive' technologies in rather short times (think gasoline vs. steam vs. electricity for trains or turbine vs. gasoline for planes). The 'driving force' for bicycles has stayed virtually the same (human muscles), but the transmissions and…

> Show me another widespread technology that exists since the late 1800s and that has not been completely replaced by another technology. There have got to be hundreds. Traffic lights and air brakes, 1868 Four-stroke internal combustion engine, 1876 toilet paper, 1880 Rayon, 1884 Steam turbine, 1884 Gas-powered automobile and motorcycle, 1885 dish-washer, Coca-cola (is that an invention?), 1886 radar, contact lenses,…

What did people use before 1880?

Re: The Commuter Bike Redesigned and Electrified

#35

Post by kristiandupont »

Derbasti wrote: post #14

Frankly, I don't see the point of electric bicycles. I have not seen any electric bicycle that offered any real advantage to a normal muscle-operated one. As a matter of fact, bicycles are one of the oldest and most refined technologies available to us. They are marvelously efficient, they are light and versatile. Adding an electric motor and battery makes them heavy, limits your range and decreases the amount of con…

Most electric bikes might not offer much advantage but this one is obviously very compact compared to a normal bike. That is a major advantage to some people.

Re: The Commuter Bike Redesigned and Electrified

#36

Post by atgm »

flipbrad wrote: post #9
atgm wrote: post #5

You can buy regular bicycles with little electric motors on them here in Japan for about $1,000. That seems a lot more reasonable than completely redesigning the bicycle...

I doubt many japanese take those on the subway though! I don't recall seeing standard bicycles on the tokyo metro at all, in fact. To the person who said you prefer to lock it up outside a grocery store - what exactly stops you from doing that with this device? The cost is a major stumbling block; mind you, I see a lot of heinously expensive road bikes around London, and I suppose their actual utility is lower (harde…

No subway out where I live. Plenty of older people use them because of the hills/mountains out here. You can see them on the buses that take bikes, or the non-JR train lines that let you take bikes.

Re: The Commuter Bike Redesigned and Electrified

#37

Post by Retric »

simonsarris wrote: post #32
Derbasti wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me another widespread technology that exists since the late 1800s and that has not been completely replaced by another technology. Most technologies get replaced by newer 'disruptive' technologies in rather short times (think gasoline vs. steam vs. electricity for trains or turbine vs. gasoline for planes). The 'driving force' for bicycles has stayed virtually the same (human muscles), but the transmissions and…

> Show me another widespread technology that exists since the late 1800s and that has not been completely replaced by another technology. There have got to be hundreds. Traffic lights and air brakes, 1868 Four-stroke internal combustion engine, 1876 toilet paper, 1880 Rayon, 1884 Steam turbine, 1884 Gas-powered automobile and motorcycle, 1885 dish-washer, Coca-cola (is that an invention?), 1886 radar, contact lenses,…

That somewhat depends on what you call a bike. A 1917 dandy horse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dandy_horse looks much like a bike.

Vs the first pedal-equipped bicycle, developed by Pierre Michaux, Pierre Lallement and the Olivier brothers in the 1860s.

Re: The Commuter Bike Redesigned and Electrified

#38

Post by rue »

Derbasti wrote: post #14

Frankly, I don't see the point of electric bicycles. I have not seen any electric bicycle that offered any real advantage to a normal muscle-operated one. As a matter of fact, bicycles are one of the oldest and most refined technologies available to us. They are marvelously efficient, they are light and versatile. Adding an electric motor and battery makes them heavy, limits your range and decreases the amount of con…

Actually, pedelecs are getting rather common right here in the EU. In addition to still requiring pedaling oneself, I think most countries restrict the power output somehow; here it's max 250W and turns off at 25km/h. And sure, you probably shouldn't embark on a 100km ride but the batteries are certainly sufficient to last a daily commute, One thing I, as a racing-type cyclist, suffered from was the feeling that it was somehow “unfair” that people would have assistance cycling, but it's really an entirely different beast: there's cycling, and then there's transportation by means of a bicycle. By all means love your bicycles – I like mine very much – but pedelecs don't really detract anything from you.

A pedelec won't make people lazier, it enables them to use their bike loaded heavier, in worse conditions[1] and with less effort which is important if they aren't terribly fit or don't want to sweat on their way to work. This translates to more people riding. I'd argue that there's enough exercise involved to actually get direct health gains, but even assuming there's not, we still get the benefit of fewer cars on the roads and a better environment for cycling when drivers and politicians are forced to really pay attention to it (it may shock you to know that in many places in the EU, while certainly better than most of the US, cycling life still is a bit dangerous and inconvenient).

[1] The weather in the winter here is such that bike commutes take 50-200% more time than in the summer even when you work twice as hard. I know a few people who run an electric in the winter: the result is that they get to ride at an effort level comparable to that in the summer.

Re: The Commuter Bike Redesigned and Electrified

#39

Post by Derbasti »

po wrote: post #31
Derbasti wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most electric bicycles only enhance your own pedaling. This makes you faster, but it won't make you sweat less as you can still exert the same force (only to greater effect). In other words, if sweating is the problem, ride slower. Personally, I ride slowly to work, and fast back .

This makes no sense. I've seen women in skirts blasting up a hill by my house with a kid in a bike seat that would leave me huffing and puffing at any speed. They don't even have to get off the seat. The enhanced pedaling makes you stronger not just faster. That means less sweating.

In that case it is more of a motorcycle anyway. Where is the point in cycling if you don't have to use your own muscles to ride?

Re: The Commuter Bike Redesigned and Electrified

#40

Post by neves »

othello wrote: post #21
Derbasti wrote: post #14

Frankly, I don't see the point of electric bicycles. I have not seen any electric bicycle that offered any real advantage to a normal muscle-operated one. As a matter of fact, bicycles are one of the oldest and most refined technologies available to us. They are marvelously efficient, they are light and versatile. Adding an electric motor and battery makes them heavy, limits your range and decreases the amount of con…

As a matter of fact, bicycles are one of the oldest and most refined technologies available to us. Bicycles can hardly be considered an old technology. While Da Vinci had already sketched some designs in the late 15th century [1], the first prototypes could not be built before the early 19th century. The first recognizable version of the current chain-driven models was only produced in 1885. [2] The chain-driven bicy…

Leonardo's bike design is a hoax: http://www.cyclepublishing.com/history/leonardo%20da%20vinci...
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