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Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#201

Post by WalterBright »

WalterBright wrote: post #193
BalinKing wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not terribly related, but I personally think it’s really cool that you went to Caltech! It bums me out that Caltech doesn’t have as many associated giants of the tech world as e.g. MIT or Berkeley, which might just owe to Caltech’s smaller size, so I always love it when I learn about an awesome alum like yourself :-) If you don’t mind me asking, what Hou(v)se were you in?

Page. Caltech is quite a bit smaller, only 130 undergrads in my graduation class, or something like that (don't recall exactly). Bill Gross is likely the most famous alumnus of my class. Quite a few in my class (79) became quite wealthy in the tech business, though not the really big money.

Hal Finney was the most famous of the class ahead of me. His dorm room was next to mine. My only brush with fame! Hal was one of the good eggs.

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#202

Post by WalterBright »

jimmaswell wrote: post #145
Spooky23 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proliferation of data platforms and fancy tools makes it easy to build dashboards, etc. One former colleague is doing a lot of research and statistics gathering by correlating use of campus swipe cards to grades and other academic warning signs. If they detect that you’re out late, using soda machines at 3am, bugging out for the weekend, etc they may trigger some of sort intervention.

An intervention for staying up late and leaving on the weekend? Is this a college or a daycare?

I think I subsisted on something like 4 hours of sleep. There was just too much fun going on.

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#203

Post by isthis1984 »

lonelappde wrote: post #128
isthis1984 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, @droithomme's comment put me onto that to, I didn't realise it was classed as a personality type not just a form of government. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Authoritarian_Personalit... this irritates me even more that its been known since the 50's and we still put up with it. The book is here https://smile.amazon.com/Authoritarian-Personality-Theodor-A... the comments are an interesting study alone.

The book is pretty well derided as political propaganda masquerading as science. It's the same as the modern day "scientific" view that all Trump voters are mentally ill and Clinton voters are not.

It does seem to fit in with many of my observations, and explains some behaviour - is there some alternate reading you'd suggest?

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#204

Post by WalterBright »

pickdenis wrote: post #114
WalterBright wrote: post #43

> logging their absence into a campus database that tracks them over time and can sink their grade. Fortunately, I attended a college (Caltech) that as institute policy did not take attendance and no part of the grade was based on attendance. The result was nobody was disruptive in class, because if students didn't want to attend, they didn't attend. I remember sitting in class as a freshman thinking about this and e…

This sort of thing doesn't work at schools that don't have such a high bar of entry. Caltech can afford to treat their students like adults, because they're picked from the cream of the crop. On the other hand, schools like the one I went to would have a horrible(r) matriculation rate if students were not forced to attend certain classes. It infuriurates me (and I think students who want to fail should be allowed to…

Other elite schools take attendance and don't have an Honor System.

One interesting consequence of this is the faculty and students become collaborators rather than adversaries.

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#205

Post by lainga »

jimmaswell wrote: post #145
Spooky23 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proliferation of data platforms and fancy tools makes it easy to build dashboards, etc. One former colleague is doing a lot of research and statistics gathering by correlating use of campus swipe cards to grades and other academic warning signs. If they detect that you’re out late, using soda machines at 3am, bugging out for the weekend, etc they may trigger some of sort intervention.

An intervention for staying up late and leaving on the weekend? Is this a college or a daycare?

"Smith. 6079 Smith W. Yes, you! Bend lower."

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#206

Post by N3cr0ph4g1st »

aratakareigen wrote: post #182
mentos wrote: post #66

Why are kids paying for school if they’re not going to class?

I stay at home and read the lecture slides on my computer because it's easier for me, and lets me be nocturnal. Am I really missing out on that much by not being there?

Depends on your style and the class. In undergrad I had many classes I completely skipped and just taught myself from the book and I did just fine. Only thing you'd be missing out on are the social aspect and if the teacher drops test hints in lecture, though even when I was in school most of the big lectures were being recorded so even that wasn't an issue.

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#207

Post by WalterBright »

pickdenis wrote: post #181
dragonwriter wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Caltech can afford to treat their students like adults, because they're picked from the cream of the crop. The cream in terms of demonstrated capacity for academic performance, which probably has very little correlation to readiness to be treated as an adult. There selection criteria is why they can afford to have rigorous coursework as the basic freshman core, but not why their decision to treat the young adults a…

> has very little correlation to readiness to be treated as an adult My words may have been misleading. What I'm trying to say is the kind of student that gets admission to Caltech is not the kind of student to neglect going to class out of laziness or whatever and fail out because of that.

> is not the kind of student to neglect going to class out of laziness or whatever and fail out because of that.

Well, I was. I tried repeatedly to skip class and still pass. It did not work. The low point was finals week, first semester, sophomore year. I was looking at flunking out. I had serious pain in my gut from stress.

I squeaked by.

That was it for me. I decided that I was never again going to miss a lecture, always take notes properly, never again skip homework (doing homework was not required), and I would master every single homework problem on time.

That worked for me. I started getting B's, eventually turning into A's.

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#208

Post by seventhtiger »

jeltz wrote: post #162
pickdenis wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of thing doesn't work at schools that don't have such a high bar of entry. Caltech can afford to treat their students like adults, because they're picked from the cream of the crop. On the other hand, schools like the one I went to would have a horrible(r) matriculation rate if students were not forced to attend certain classes. It infuriurates me (and I think students who want to fail should be allowed to…

Virtually all universities in Sweden do the same, and it works fairly well even in those with a very low bar of entry. And while our universities are not for profit they still do get funding based on number of students who complete courses. Do we really want tons of unmotivated students in the classrooms?

I don't understand how not tracking attendance is treating adults like adults. Your workplace will track your attendance until you retire. It's pretty normal.

Just because a student has issues with discipline or motivation I shouldn't let them fail. Tracking attendance improves academic results so I'm not sure what the advantage is to not tracking it.

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#209

Post by dmitryminkovsky »

WalterBright wrote: post #204
pickdenis wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of thing doesn't work at schools that don't have such a high bar of entry. Caltech can afford to treat their students like adults, because they're picked from the cream of the crop. On the other hand, schools like the one I went to would have a horrible(r) matriculation rate if students were not forced to attend certain classes. It infuriurates me (and I think students who want to fail should be allowed to…

Other elite schools take attendance and don't have an Honor System. One interesting consequence of this is the faculty and students become collaborators rather than adversaries.

What elite institutions take attendance?

Re: Colleges are turning students’ phones into surveillance machines

#210

Post by saagarjha »

hyperbovine wrote: post #146
WalterBright wrote: post #43

> logging their absence into a campus database that tracks them over time and can sink their grade. Fortunately, I attended a college (Caltech) that as institute policy did not take attendance and no part of the grade was based on attendance. The result was nobody was disruptive in class, because if students didn't want to attend, they didn't attend. I remember sitting in class as a freshman thinking about this and e…

But that's CalTech.

…and?
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