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How the U.S. betrayed the Marshall Islands, kindling the next nuclear disaster

latimes.com

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Re: How the U.S. betrayed the Marshall Islands, kindling the next nuclear disaster

#81
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True that. Both my parents grew up near a POW camp in Malaysia during WWII. They said that yes, when the Japanese occupied Malaya, the treatment of the allied prisoners by the Japanese guards was brutal and cruel. But they also said when the tables turned later in the war, and the Japanese were prisoners in the same camps under British and US guards, the treatment dished out was every way just as bad.

[flagged]

Please don't respond by breaking the site guidelines, regardless of how wrong a comment is or you feel it is.

Your post would be just fine without the first sentence.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: How the U.S. betrayed the Marshall Islands, kindling the next nuclear disaster

#82
FTA - “While it is true that these people do not live the way that Westerners do, civilized people, it is nonetheless also true that they are more like us than the mice.”

I find this statement callous and shocking. I get what she is trying to say but to me it seems a very poor choice of words.

Re: How the U.S. betrayed the Marshall Islands, kindling the next nuclear disaster

#83
As someone who lives in the South Pacific - in a nuclear free country what's more - the whole affair makes me upset and sad.

The sad irony in the below article is hard to miss.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2019-11-14/marshal...

It probably gives you some perspective on why people outside of the States are often perplexed on why the US can lead discussions on nuclear nonproliferation when they continue to be a bad actor.

The above linked article is reasonable evidence U.S government is more concerned about their image than doing the right thing.

Re: How the U.S. betrayed the Marshall Islands, kindling the next nuclear disaster

#84
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True that. Both my parents grew up near a POW camp in Malaysia during WWII. They said that yes, when the Japanese occupied Malaya, the treatment of the allied prisoners by the Japanese guards was brutal and cruel. But they also said when the tables turned later in the war, and the Japanese were prisoners in the same camps under British and US guards, the treatment dished out was every way just as bad.

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I assume by "documented the crimes" you include your documentation of things like the mai lai massacre as well?

Re: How the U.S. betrayed the Marshall Islands, kindling the next nuclear disaster

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True that. Both my parents grew up near a POW camp in Malaysia during WWII. They said that yes, when the Japanese occupied Malaya, the treatment of the allied prisoners by the Japanese guards was brutal and cruel. But they also said when the tables turned later in the war, and the Japanese were prisoners in the same camps under British and US guards, the treatment dished out was every way just as bad.

Some quick googling shows allied POW death rates in Japanese custody were between 27-36%. I can't find any hard consolidated numbers for Japanese POWs in allied custody after the war, but I can't find any event that even approaches the scale of the Bataan Death March or Unit 731 let alone other documented Japanese cruelties. It's possible your parents witnessed some isolated cruelty, but there is zero evidence that o…

No doubt that a majority of casualties were on the death marches or working on railroads and bridges.

My dad and his friend used to actually drop food parcels to allied prisoners working on repairing bridges in his area. (He also dropped food to Japanese prisoners later in the war who worked on bridge repair. In fact, he said one of the scariest moments was when a Ghurka guard saw him drop food to a Japanese prisoner, and drew his Kukri in anger. My dad ran for miles to get away because he knew the Ghurka tradition was that once the Kukri was drawn, it could not go back into its scabbard without tasting blood).

The cruelty he witnessed seemed to be behind the wires, with executions and public torture by both sides being prevalent.

I do recall hearing stories from other people outside of my parents while growing up in South East Asia, but once again, the curation and editing of those stories rarely get past local areas. Nobody outside of the countries where it actually happened seems to want to hear, or repeat those events.

For instance, hardly anyone in the West seems to want to acknowledge how easily the Japanese walked into Malaysia, with almost no opposition. When they occupied Kuala Lumpur, they shot up the clock tower in the railway station near where my father lived, and that was it before the foot soldiers moved in. When the allies recaptured KL in later years, they carpet bombed the railway yards, killing hundreds of civilian labourers who lived in shanty towns within the yards. The tales of a triumphant US/English force recapturing their colony usually tends to omit details such as these.

Re: How the U.S. betrayed the Marshall Islands, kindling the next nuclear disaster

#86
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True that. Both my parents grew up near a POW camp in Malaysia during WWII. They said that yes, when the Japanese occupied Malaya, the treatment of the allied prisoners by the Japanese guards was brutal and cruel. But they also said when the tables turned later in the war, and the Japanese were prisoners in the same camps under British and US guards, the treatment dished out was every way just as bad.

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Well, forgive me for taking the word of people who actually witnessed things first hand, rather than 'scholars' who rely on the words written by the winners 5 decades later.

I assume you have read the exploits of US guards torturing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib? I've also read reports that one much vaunted US air ace in the European theatre during WWII was renowned for machine gunning German pilots while they were hanging from their parachutes or running from the burning wrecks of their aircraft on the ground. Funny how those sorts of stories are not widely circulated these days?

Then again, with a president who recently pardoned a war criminal who shot a young civilian girl in the M/E just for kicks, and indeed, is now celebrating him as a hero - I won't hold my breath.

Re: How the U.S. betrayed the Marshall Islands, kindling the next nuclear disaster

#87
post #84
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I assume by "documented the crimes" you include your documentation of things like the mai lai massacre as well?

Why yes I do. There is a very long list of actual crimes committed by US troops during various conflicts and I would never seek to hide them, but having done some basic research I am also going to call out misinformation and unverified BS when I see it.

Re: How the U.S. betrayed the Marshall Islands, kindling the next nuclear disaster

#88
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason Russia comes out okay in your comparison is because it simply lacks the capacity to project power the way the U.S. does - there's only one global superpower, for now. If you look at areas where Russia has had an effectively free hand - like Chechnya, for instance - adjusting for scale, the resulting atrocities are worse than anything the U.S. has done since Vietnam. And in terms of internal repression…

"The only reason Russia comes out okay in your comparison is because it simply lacks the capacity to project power the way the U.S. does" Why do you presume this? "like Chechnya, for instance" There are no other instances. And in that particular case, we don't know what the alternatives are. Considering Chechen raids into neighbouring regions and Saudi Arabia's and Turkey's influence in Chechnya, we could've gotten a…

> There are no other instances.

Conveniently forgetting Ukraine for a current example. Or the havoc Russia did in the 20th century in all of Eastern Europe.

> "geographical malady of being next to Russia" This sounds Russophobic. When you want to write something like this, try replacing Russians and Russia with Jews and Israel, and see if it still sounds okey.

Last time I checked Israel didn't subjugate half a continent for 50 years.

Re: How the U.S. betrayed the Marshall Islands, kindling the next nuclear disaster

#89

Why is it, when reading this article, all I can picture is that meme of the SS officer saying "Wait a minute... Are WE the baddies?". I am starting to interpret a lot of things I took for granted in my younger years with a different viewpoint, and I am increasingly horrified when I do, as the perceptions I've always had that most Western countries are the benevolent benefactors is tainted by stories such as this, whi…

If we weren't before, wee certainly are the baddies after the Eddie Gallagher pardon.

Re: How the U.S. betrayed the Marshall Islands, kindling the next nuclear disaster

#90
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took me a long time to realize this, but now I recognize that which I think most of my fellow Europeans already know: yes, you're the baddies (I knew that already), but you're the best baddies of the baddies available. Our other options are to associate with eg China or Russia, and between those the US, even with people like Trump at the wheel, is splendid. Naturally, I think that the US should do a much bigger ef…

As much hate as the British get, the British Empire is one of the great forces of advancement and progress in the history of the world. It's unfortunate on a global scale that the US nor anyone else was able to effect a decent handoff when the Brits renounced all their possessions. Untold misery has been the result of that failed transition.

"renounced", indeed.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/crimes-against-humanity-the-br...

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