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French cities trying to ban public adverts

theguardian.com

71–80 of 140 posts

Re: French cities trying to ban public adverts

#71
post #60
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You assume advertising somehow helps the economy, but it is probably the reverse. If business A buys ads, it's competitor B is forced to do the some, or be slowly edged out of the market. Like peacock plumes, ads are mostly a tax that weighs down every business in the area.

But how can businesses may become known? I see that maybe image ads are of the peacock feather type. Informative ads, like a new movie being out in theaters, can actually be net-positive financially, at the expense of the strain on public attention.

> how can businesses may become known?

Some argue all advertising should be banned. If that were to occur, the search burden would shift to consumers. We'd subscribe to curators like the Consumer Report or Wirecutter, storekeepers, et cetera and let them do the searching on our behalf.

This article considers something weaker. No public advertising. No billboards. Direct mail, storefront displays, in-store advertising, et cetera are still permitted.

Re: French cities trying to ban public adverts

#72
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> plain text listing of facts Coca-Cola tastes great! Coca-Cola gives you an extra pep in your step! Coca-Cola will rot you teeth! These are all true statements (the first one is subjective, I'll admit), but I suspect that many believe the effect of plain test listing of facts would only allow the third statement. > Pictures only allowed for demonstrative purposes. Wouldn't a photo of someone drinking a Coke and enjo…

Would like to see all three of your examples banned as well, because they're not statements of fact, they're opinions, of the kind you'd typically find in an ad today. Useful listings of facts look like this: - is carbonated (therefore acidic, refreshing, negatively impacting teeth) - has x mg sugar per 100ml (therefore energizing to some extent, promoting weight gain) - has x mg of caffeine per 100ml (therefore ener…

> they're not statements of fact, they're opinions

At this point, you need a federal bureaucracy policing practically all retail commercial speech.

Re: French cities trying to ban public adverts

#73
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how can businesses may become known? I see that maybe image ads are of the peacock feather type. Informative ads, like a new movie being out in theaters, can actually be net-positive financially, at the expense of the strain on public attention.

> Informative ads, like a new movie being out in theaters, can actually be net-positive financially, at the expense of the strain on public attention. It would be easy to avoid that strain, by segregating such informative ads into places where people can seek them out on their own. Have advertising be PULL, not PUSH. Unfortunately, this is the exact opposite of what the advertising industry wants (and really, what mo…

So more or less enforcing the status quo. If you can't do push marketing, whatever people are used to will stay for much, much longer.

Re: French cities trying to ban public adverts

#74
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wouldn't buy the advertising if they couldn't make a profit on your attention. Pay with brain space, or pay through a tax. Which is more expensive?

It's not the brain space that's paying for the advertising, it's your (or, well, people's) buying of the advertised products. So in addition to the costs of brain space, there are still also actual financial costs to it that are borne by the city's citizens.

Well they got the product they bought, so it's a stretch to consider it a cost. Perhaps only the marginal cost that went to advertising, but it's still a stretch to consider it a cost if the buyer considers they got their money's worth.

Re: French cities trying to ban public adverts

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would like to see all three of your examples banned as well, because they're not statements of fact, they're opinions, of the kind you'd typically find in an ad today. Useful listings of facts look like this: - is carbonated (therefore acidic, refreshing, negatively impacting teeth) - has x mg sugar per 100ml (therefore energizing to some extent, promoting weight gain) - has x mg of caffeine per 100ml (therefore ener…

> they're not statements of fact, they're opinions At this point, you need a federal bureaucracy policing practically all retail commercial speech.

Probably wouldn't work, but I also wouldn't mind them trying.

Re: French cities trying to ban public adverts

#76
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Informative ads, like a new movie being out in theaters, can actually be net-positive financially, at the expense of the strain on public attention. It would be easy to avoid that strain, by segregating such informative ads into places where people can seek them out on their own. Have advertising be PULL, not PUSH. Unfortunately, this is the exact opposite of what the advertising industry wants (and really, what mo…

So more or less enforcing the status quo. If you can't do push marketing, whatever people are used to will stay for much, much longer.

But that's not a problem, IMO. If something was good enough before, it's likely good enough still. If it stops being good enough, people will be prompted to look for alternatives, which they'll then discover. Given how it's nearly impossible to satisfy human beings, they'll start looking for options sooner rather than later.

Re: French cities trying to ban public adverts

#77
post #26
post #9

I think in the near future we'll have empirical evidence that most ads are malicious exploits of flaws in human psychology. Ideally, all ads should be plain text listing of facts. Pictures only allowed for demonstrative purposes. And they should be listed in "Ad sections", like a phone book.

The movie “The Invention of Lying”, where everyone tells the truth (as lying hasn’t been ‘invented’) has an example of this. “Please drink Coca Cola. It’s basically just brown sugar water.” https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fhtTU-guW60

Also seen in the movie "Crazy People":

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099316/quotes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzyNPoI17rE

Re: French cities trying to ban public adverts

#78
post #38

OK, I'll make the case for ads: Ads are disruptive. They allow new businesses to break into markets owned by old dominant suppliers. This way they keep the market healthy and serving consumers. Based on that, you'd expect anti-ad initiatives to be aligned with powerful established industries. Not that I know how to confirm or refute that.

Ads allow whomever has the deepest pockets to dominate the public's attention. Incumbents will have more money to spend, chilling the influence of new competitors. Most of the "disruptor" success stories that come to mind started with some variation of "we didn't spend anything on advertising, relying on word of mouth."

Or, at least, most of the people who thought their advertising strategies were worth mentioning spent almost nothing, relying rather on word of mouth.

Those may be quite different things.

Re: French cities trying to ban public adverts

#79

OK, I'll make the case for ads: Ads are disruptive. They allow new businesses to break into markets owned by old dominant suppliers. This way they keep the market healthy and serving consumers. Based on that, you'd expect anti-ad initiatives to be aligned with powerful established industries. Not that I know how to confirm or refute that.

If your product is good, it can break into markets by word of mouth. You ignore the fact that incumbents can easily pay for advertising out of economic rents they collect, and do.

Ads can be disruptive, but they are also frequently deceptive and simplistic, not to mention distracting. I loathe the industry with a white-hot passion.

Re: French cities trying to ban public adverts

#80

A general sentiment I see here is that ads should be banned, but what can be done in the US? The First Amendment protects truthful advertisements. In addition, we have the FTC for misleading and lying ads (although their success is not what it should be (case in point: OutBrain and Taboola)). So, what do we do? Further reading on the 1st Amendment and advertising: http://www.lawpublish.com/amend1.html https://en.wiki…

Nobody wants ads banned. The problem is that ads are being placed into previously unused places and louder than before. The result is that all companies have to compete with these new obnoxious ads or risk falling behind their competitors that are willing to put ads in distasteful places. In my opinion, the solution is to clearly define a discrete set of spaces for ads and make sure everyone is able to compete on equ…

Nobody wants ads banned.

I do. I'm OK with magazine-type ads I suppose, since that's a format where advertisers can provide information to the consumer who may or may not choose to study it. If I am soliciting information about products or services through whatever medium, fair enough. Likewise I don't especially mind watching trailers when I go to the movies, since it's reasonable to think that I would be willing to consider spending money to watch other movies in the future.

But most ads are about hijacking my attention, which I greatly resent.

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