Earlier quoted context omitted.
It depends on the economy, Australian tradespeople make the same if not more than good coders right now. We're growing so fast the demand for those skills is high and shows no signs of dropping off.
Yeah. My brother just finished his apprenticeship in cabinet making and is already on more than me, a programmer. Unions don't have anything to do with it, either - I don't think he's even in one - it's just that the demand for tradesmen is so high over here. Hence the rise in cashed up bogans.
US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent
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Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent
#32Gee I remember when it seemed the US's manufacturing output was orders of magnitude beyond China (and Japan seemed like it was where China is today). Good for China for bootstrapping their economy so effectively, but no one would claim that the US trade deficit was irrelevant to the process either. Even if you believe that China's output is now approaching parity with the US (46 percent is nearly equal on the long te…
Even if you believe that China's output is now approaching parity with the US ... is it not reasonable to ask at what point they're going to start buying some of our stuff in return? They have bought 20% of the US Debt... Edit: 20% of the US debt owned by foreign countries
Well, there's your problem.
Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent
#33Measuring manufacturing in $$$ might be a bit misleading. If China makes 4 $10 business shirts for every one $50 business shirt the US makes ... ?
Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent
#34Measuring manufacturing in $$$ might be a bit misleading. If China makes 4 $10 business shirts for every one $50 business shirt the US makes ... ?
However, it does underlie a point - tracking the value of shipments by a currency value can easily obscure important facts.
Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent
#35Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if you believe that China's output is now approaching parity with the US ... is it not reasonable to ask at what point they're going to start buying some of our stuff in return? They have bought 20% of the US Debt... Edit: 20% of the US debt owned by foreign countries
And the Federal Reserve recently surpassed China as the largest buyer of US Debt. China has stopped buying as much as the US government will print. Well, there's your problem.
Hint: It's somewhere in the blue part of the pie ;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#Estim...
Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent
#37While it is true that North America still manufactures great quantities of luxury and high tech stuff, that isn't what is pissing off the populists. They couldn't care less if our manufacturing doubled in terms of dollars of output. What they really want is a return to the highly paid, unionized, tradesperson. To them robots making Chevy trucks matters just as much to their lives as nerds writing software. As product…
I believe there is no 'solution' to their plight. The timeline until singularity is too short for a complete retooling of the economy. However the pace of development at the higher end is fast enough and explosive enough that we can afford to keep on subsidizing the lower classes with bread and circuses until we reach sentient AI, at which point we will be able to provide everyone with robot servants and who knows what else.
Just think about the current web 2.0 economy. If a nineteen year old is able to write a piece of software and execute on a plan that makes him a billionaire in a few years, that's... really quite amazing. Yes yes I know, some people are going to call bubble. Whether or not it's true, I think it's evident that the pace of innovation has sped up more than most people realize. Things like this will continue happening and happen quickly. We're at the beginning of a fantastic time when the pace of wealth creation will increase exponentially, with the internet as the great enabler.
Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent
#38Re: US manufacturing still tops China’s by nearly 46 percent
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah. My brother just finished his apprenticeship in cabinet making and is already on more than me, a programmer. Unions don't have anything to do with it, either - I don't think he's even in one - it's just that the demand for tradesmen is so high over here. Hence the rise in cashed up bogans.
Is it really the case that the demand is so high or that supply is kept artificially low by tradesmen apprenticeship programs? I thought that was the point of the trades...to reduce competition by decreasing the number of competitors. Though this might be a misconception entirely...
I'm sitting here in Austraia, trying to summon up the will to fire up XCode and instead being dragged away to surf trips with my brother-in-law and all his tradie friends. They all have houses that I once dreamed about owning after I sold my startup to Google. That never happened, so I spent some time researching the trades here.
Many of the trades have apprenticeship programs but are essentially unlicensed. For instance, for some reason you can make loads of money laying tile at the moment. There might be "tiling apprenticeships" but for the most part you can just show up and make $20/hr lifting boxes and cleaning up, and $50/hr putting the tiles down.
Plumbers and electricians are in high demand, especially in the mines. In addition to demand, they have to be licensed, and thus they make more money. There is an apprenticeship period, various certs for residential, commercial, data, hospital, high-energy, marine, etc.
The apprenticeship period may be pushing up the wages of sparkies a bit but there does seem to be a lot of work. I don't think these apprenticeships are artificially limited like the way med school seats in the USA are limited. Plus, you get paid $19-$20/hr as an electrical apprentice, which is $40K a year.
One interesting thing I learned is that sparkies and plumbers can sign up for on-call insurance jobs and charge even more money. During this weekend's floods in Geelong my electrician friend's phone was constantly ringing. I think he got about 8 jobs that he passed over to his partner.
All that said, I get a bit of a bubble feeling over here. Especially for residential building. Who are all these new subdivision houses supposed to be for? The tradesmen building them? I can't imagine a lot of office drones communting from the Bellarine Peninsula to Melbourne. Or even being able to afford the homes in the first place. In other parts of the country, once the mines are all tapped I wonder where the money is going to come from.