Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Downsides to working at a tech giant

blog.garrytan.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

541–550 of 583 posts

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#541

Post by yowlingcat »

keithwhor wrote: post #307
pm90 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a terrible comment. "Be patient" is a non-response. You made a comment, and got a very good response as to why your comment is missing nuances that might be the real reason for a change that you're attributing to something else. Especially in a forum like this one with no notifications, Be Patient is basically saying STFU.

The poster I replied to here created a straw man argument based on my lack of response to another comment. I didn’t think that was fair considering my bandwidth limitations, so I decided it would be best to set expectations. My response to the “math changing” comment has now been added above. Do not assume that the lack of response of somebody else implies anything aside from the fact that they didn’t respond. They c…

Leaving the passive-aggressive smiley aside for a second, you'd do well to more fully understand my position before brushing it off as a straw man. While I don't agree with how GP phrased it, they are correct that "be patient" is a non-answer. I've been sold enough kool-aid to where my default presumption is that the founder suffers from a "reality-distortion field obscures your inability to see the very real reasons why people make (and remain happy with) these decisions, just because it threatens your life choices and identity." That's why I suggested it when I saw elements of that distortion field in your reply.

We do not agree on how folks should approach their careers. Not one bit. That's not a straw man just because you don't agree. It clearly resonated and struck a chord with others who have been on the other side of the pitch, and who have made the same conclusions I have.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#542

Post by emodendroket »

wongarsu wrote: post #527
emodendroket wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they don't then why does anybody use AWS?

Start-ups use AWS because with $20k-$100k in credits you can do a lot for free in the first year, and after that the cost difference usually doesn't matter. It also looks great on everyone's CV. Big companies ofc have other reasons like flexibility, needing less coordination in the company etc.

If there were no economies of scale it certainly would seem strange that it could possibly be cheaper to rent computers from Amazon than to run your own data center.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#543

Post by wongarsu »

emodendroket wrote: post #542
wongarsu wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start-ups use AWS because with $20k-$100k in credits you can do a lot for free in the first year, and after that the cost difference usually doesn't matter. It also looks great on everyone's CV. Big companies ofc have other reasons like flexibility, needing less coordination in the company etc.

If there were no economies of scale it certainly would seem strange that it could possibly be cheaper to rent computers from Amazon than to run your own data center.

Renting servers from Hetzner is a lot cheaper than using AWS. If you get your uplink figured out then running your own servers is also cheaper.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#545

Post by emodendroket »

wongarsu wrote: post #543
emodendroket wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there were no economies of scale it certainly would seem strange that it could possibly be cheaper to rent computers from Amazon than to run your own data center.

Renting servers from Hetzner is a lot cheaper than using AWS. If you get your uplink figured out then running your own servers is also cheaper.

Sure, if you discount the administrative work to keep them up it might be.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#546

Post by jackthetab »

manigandham wrote: post #515
dcow wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Deserve“ absolutely means exactly what it means. I’m talking about the equity distribution sub-10 here. What sub-10 employees are getting any more benefits than their founder(s)? Maybe marginally more cash but it’s all still below market so it doesn’t really matter. But most founders I’ve encountered are actually paying themselves more than their early employees because they have to in order to maintain their lifest…

It doesn't mean anything because its a completely subjective moral judgement. There's no global arbiter of what people deserve. And again, if you think founders should take less equity then you're free to start your own venture and show everyone how well it works. I've yet to see single example of this though. If it's so easy to start a company without risk and get rich then what's stopping anyone else? Do you realiz…

> And again, if you think founders should take less equity then you're free to start your own venture and show everyone how well it works. I've yet to see single example of this though.

This topic was covered in Episode 3 of Gimlet Media's "Startup" podcast[1]. He ended up do a 50/50 equity split. They seem to have done well for themselves[2].

[1]https://gimletmedia.com/shows/startup/8who49/gimlet-3-how-to...

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimlet_Media

(And why this reply is not properly indented is beyond me.)

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#547

Post by jbjohns »

keithwhor wrote: post #249
novok wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why is the math changed. The gap between startup and tech giant is much larger now than it was in 2010. Also, unless you have insider access and join a very risky angel stage company, the likelihood of getting a good package that makes sense is low, very low. Also public companies have shown to get +3x gains, which can make the math even worse. Example from personal experience that is very lucky in startup…

I don’t disagree with the spirit of your post. Large tech companies are paying ridiculous salaries and generally speaking we’re in a period of early-stage capital glut. The point you’ve made — that it makes more sense to just start a company — is directionally correct, but for the most part is a logical fallacy. I hear this from competent, capable people all the time, “I might as well just start my own company rather…

>Large tech companies are paying ridiculous salaries and generally speaking we’re in a period of early-stage capital glut.

The salaries are not ridiculous at all. It's the rate the market has decided those workers are worth. If a start up wants to compete they have to change something big because as it currently is I don't see it as rational at all. All the benefits you mention only happen if it works out for you. For nearly all people who try, it's not going to.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#548

Post by KoftaBob »

codingslave wrote: post #344
KoftaBob wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Startups paying better than tech giants seems counter intuitive to me. The giants can pay high salaries because they're hugely profitable and don't need to worry about being hyper efficient to make the most of VC money. Startups on the other hand, are still weak on the profitability part, but have massive room for growth when it comes to valuation. Therefore, the equity they can offer has way more potential value tha…

Founders are not even giving enough equity for employees to match the income they lose not working for big tech. Its common to still make less on equity + salary after a successful exit compared to the yearly total compensation at big tech.

Fair point. However another selling point of working at a startup vs a big company is the impact you get to have on a product. Being able to say you were one of 5 people that built out a core feature of Uber in its early days is immensely valuable for career trajectory.

Once a company is large, it's hard to have that level of impact until you're a director/vp/etc.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#549

Post by techslave »

zadkey wrote: post #68

It seems like he has found the problem with companies. "Even though these companies pay a lot of money, in real terms, what software is doing in society is creating a lot more value than what they pay you. Google's pure profit per employee is actually $1.6 million per year, after all costs." "If you're in the engineering, product, design, marketing, sort of the builder's side of that organization, you've got to know…

> In other words, companies either purposefully or absentmindedly fail to pay regular employees anywhere close to their real value.

Purposefully. your comment is spot on, so i’m surprised you don’t get this aspect. It’s not the burden of companies (in capitalistic society) to pay employees their value. Companies are practically obligated to extract maximum value at the most competitive (ie, market) rate. And after all, you might do the exact same job at Google as you do at tinyCO but because it’s google (network effect and all that) you just arbitrarily happen to have more impact. You aren’t actually bringing that value.

If employees want to be paid for their value, they can take all their otherwise excess income and join the capitalists by buying the stock.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#550

Post by mancerayder »

Roritharr wrote: post #291

Having spent the past 15 years chasing the dream, working as a Founder and a couple of C-Level positions while not really amassing any sort of wealth I can't recommend enough to do your financial due diligence when accepting trade-offs for chances to reach your life-goals. I'm close to 32 and have two kids now, so the financial pressure is there, while having accepted relatively low pay in high cost-of-living locatio…

Do startups even bother hiring people not in their 20's or early 30's, though?

32 is one thing, one if you're 35, 38, 40? You come back with your financial cushion, ready to hit the startup circuit, but who will actually hire an older guy (or gal) with salivating 25 year-old grads waiting around the corner?

Post reply on HN