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The Hottest New Thing in Seasteading Is Land

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Re: The Hottest New Thing in Seasteading Is Land

#251

Post by root_axis »

seibelj wrote: post #247
root_axis wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a decent argument, maybe it doesn't apply to your specific flavor of libertarianism since you believe the state should "ensure a non-coercive society" but the devil is in the details with regard to what one considers coercive.

Do you truly believe that libertarians, of which there are millions in the US, want to return to a feudal society ? This is what you actually think? It’s completely absurd

> Do you truly believe that libertarians, of which there are millions in the US, want to return to a feudal society

No, not a literal feudal structure as it was implemented in medieval europe, but a system with some similar qualities. In particular, a system where the landed elite control private paramilitary forces and the common folk have no choice but to pay homage to their capital lords or find themselves without the protection of a state.

Re: The Hottest New Thing in Seasteading Is Land

#252

Post by hannasanarion »

seibelj wrote: post #247
root_axis wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a decent argument, maybe it doesn't apply to your specific flavor of libertarianism since you believe the state should "ensure a non-coercive society" but the devil is in the details with regard to what one considers coercive.

Do you truly believe that libertarians, of which there are millions in the US, want to return to a feudal society ? This is what you actually think? It’s completely absurd

It's not about what you want, it's about the inevitable consequences.

Capitalist libertarianism is oxymoronic. People cannot have freedom when they need to work to survive so that others can live lavishly and accumulate infinitely without working.

Re: The Hottest New Thing in Seasteading Is Land

#253

Post by michaelt »

keiferski wrote: post #242
clarkmoody wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One would assume that on a site like Hacker News, there would be more imagination and enthusiasm for innovation. Perhaps it's mostly selection bias on articles like this one that brings out the comments we see around us?

Over the last two decades, HN (and hacker culture in general) has shifted from a creator-oriented, anti-authoritarian (both left and right) culture to one supporting the establishment. I suppose that was inevitable - someone has to build the tools of surveillance capitalism at Google and Facebook.

Would you describe YCombinator as part of 'the establishment'?

In my recollection, HN has always been pro-YC and pro-venture-capital-in-general, for obvious reasons :)

Re: The Hottest New Thing in Seasteading Is Land

#254

Post by darawk »

SerLava wrote: post #245
darawk wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which organization is physically capturing you and locking you in a box, here?

The unaccountable billionaire rulers of the oceanic fief who went to incredible expense for the sole purpose of escaping democratic accountability.

Ok. So don't move there.

Re: The Hottest New Thing in Seasteading Is Land

#255

Post by 1996 »

keiferski wrote: post #242
clarkmoody wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One would assume that on a site like Hacker News, there would be more imagination and enthusiasm for innovation. Perhaps it's mostly selection bias on articles like this one that brings out the comments we see around us?

Over the last two decades, HN (and hacker culture in general) has shifted from a creator-oriented, anti-authoritarian (both left and right) culture to one supporting the establishment. I suppose that was inevitable - someone has to build the tools of surveillance capitalism at Google and Facebook.

This, so much.

Re: The Hottest New Thing in Seasteading Is Land

#256

Post by novok »

novok wrote: post #155

" Slytherin sweatshirt" "sipping well water at his mountaintop compound south of San Jose" "He also says, with a straight face , " Next up they're going to say lex luthor bald head and evil villain laugh. ---- The principle has been done before. It's similar to free trade economic zones in other countries, shenzen is one example, or reproducing something like HK or Singapore in other areas of the world.

So because it's been done before, it's not as radical of an effort. I bet if they changed the marketing to "let make another Singapore in YOUR COUNTRY" I bet locals, politicians and journalists would be way more into it.

Re: The Hottest New Thing in Seasteading Is Land

#257

Post by keiferski »

michaelt wrote: post #253
keiferski wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over the last two decades, HN (and hacker culture in general) has shifted from a creator-oriented, anti-authoritarian (both left and right) culture to one supporting the establishment. I suppose that was inevitable - someone has to build the tools of surveillance capitalism at Google and Facebook.

Would you describe YCombinator as part of 'the establishment'? In my recollection, HN has always been pro-YC and pro-venture-capital-in-general, for obvious reasons :)

Eh, I wasn't really referring to venture capital in particular, more the general philosophy. For example, here is an essay on the word "hacker":

Those in authority tend to be annoyed by hackers' general attitude of disobedience. But that disobedience is a byproduct of the qualities that make them good programmers. They may laugh at the CEO when he talks in generic corporate newspeech, but they also laugh at someone who tells them a certain problem can't be solved. Suppress one, and you suppress the other.

http://www.paulgraham.com/gba.html

This sort of attitude is definitely not the one held by most coders at BigStartupCo today.

Re: The Hottest New Thing in Seasteading Is Land

#258

Post by michaelt »

keiferski wrote: post #257
michaelt wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you describe YCombinator as part of 'the establishment'? In my recollection, HN has always been pro-YC and pro-venture-capital-in-general, for obvious reasons :)

Eh, I wasn't really referring to venture capital in particular, more the general philosophy. For example, here is an essay on the word "hacker": Those in authority tend to be annoyed by hackers' general attitude of disobedience. But that disobedience is a byproduct of the qualities that make them good programmers. They may laugh at the CEO when he talks in generic corporate newspeech, but they also laugh at someone w…

Personally I would say HN never had the anti-authoritarian/punk/anarchist ethos of 1990s cypherpunks, rather than having had it once and lost it.

HN culture has always seen multinational companies like Amazon as something to aspire to become, billionaire investors as heroic risk-taker allies, and lauded small companies that get brought out and shut down for achieving an exit.

There's nothing wrong with that, HN's culture is still perfectly valid. But HN hasn't lost an anti-authority ethos, it never had one, from the moment the URL ended with ycombinator.com

Re: The Hottest New Thing in Seasteading Is Land

#259

Post by invalidOrTaken »

BurningFrog wrote: post #122
theflyinghorse wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really does sound like a bunch of wealthy folks (and I don't mean your-town's-surgeon wealthy, I mean billionaire-class-wealthy) want to further remove themselves from laws that govern everybody else. Imagine this - a group of super wealthy bound by no laws of any nation but benefiting from them all. Terrifying.

A city of all billionaires sounds like a very small city. Also, hiring for service jobs might be hard :)

On the contrary, just pay them a few hundred thousand/year.

Re: The Hottest New Thing in Seasteading Is Land

#260

Post by dickeytk »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #162
dickeytk wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve seen a bit of this domestically too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip

Well, I am glad I work in medical devices. Vouchers for stents or pacemakers probably won’t be very attractive.

Scrip is certainly not limited to the products a company produces. In the states it was lumber and mining companies but the stores offered whatever people needed.
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