it's kinda sad european programmers get pushed out of entry level positions by typically more experienced indians willing to work for some premium above indian wage. this ensures programming is not a very well paid job in west europe. europe has problems in the education system which makes sure people only start programming after college further putting eu workers at a disadvantage versus indians and russians. which isn't to say i'm against economic immigration completely, but if countries are going to be imposing migration restrictions, they should not make an exception for programming when they do for similarly paid professions, like chefs or hairdressers.
EU beckons Indian tech talent
11–20 of 250 posts
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#12I've firsthand noticed an increasing number of programmers from India move to countries other than the USA in the last few years mainly due to the increase in perceived difficulty of obtaining an H1B (I say perceived, because I'm not sure if it is actually harder for a well deserved non outsourcing based candidate to receive an H1B).
Yes make no mistake about it. It is difficult for people with h1bs in Facebook and google with high salaries and qualifications. Its deliberate effort. I am not saying its good or bad but the problem do exist.
Yep, getting h1bs has gotten a lot more difficult.
One of my friends at Microsoft in an ML role was rejected for "non relevant degree" despite having studied applied math at McGill.
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#13It's funny because in France, we are loosing french tech talents to the US.
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
I sometimes wonder if it is too easy to get a Blue Card in Germany, and in turn will push down tech salaries when so many people show up willing to make slightly above the €42k requirement.
For the first job, people are accepting this level salaries but after 21 months (if you have B1 level German otherwise 33 months), you can get a permenant resident permit. At that point, a lot of people change their job and find a company which pays better salaries.
Yes, but the damage has already been done. It pushed more people on the job market exerting downward pressure on salaries.
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#15It is really easy to get a blue card. You just need a contract (higher than €42K) and diploma (which is relevant to your job). That's all. Not only from India, I think EU beckons tech talent from all Level 3 countries.
How does the blue card work? Is it only valid as long as you work for the employer that sponsored you to get it? Can you change employers after some amount of time and still retain it?
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#16I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad.
Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if they could import any workers hassle free?
My ex employer was low balling everyone and after failing to recruit anyone locally due to low pay he the focused on hiring exclusively Indians and Chinese who were just happy to be in Europe accepting any wage citing the good air quality and social services compared to back home.
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for them, and glad they're happy here but flooding the market with people who are happy to earn anything as long as they're allowed to live here is not a market I'd like to compete for work in as it increases the inequality putting all the gains in the hands of the employers.
We have enough skilled workers in the EU. Importing people with wages under €50k disincentivizes employers from paying fair wages and investing in local workforce and increases income inequality. If we're talking about a shortage of truly highly skilled people we have to import then probably we should be talking about setting the bar way higher than €50k.
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#17Cheap labor to make the rich get richer
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#18It's funny because in France, we are loosing french tech talents to the US.
[deleted]
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#19It is really easy to get a blue card. You just need a contract (higher than €42K) and diploma (which is relevant to your job). That's all. Not only from India, I think EU beckons tech talent from all Level 3 countries.
How does the blue card work? Is it only valid as long as you work for the employer that sponsored you to get it? Can you change employers after some amount of time and still retain it?
> Is it only valid as long as you work for the employer that sponsored you to get it?
Whenever I got mine, the person at the Ausländerbehörde said that the card was tied to my job title, not employer.
Re: EU beckons Indian tech talent
#20I wish EU work visa restrictions would be as high as the US ones. Tech salaries in Western Europe are low enough as it is and the whole developer shortage the employers keep crying about to the media is a scam to justify lax visa restrictions for cheaper workforce from abroad. Under current conditions EU companies can hire pretty much anyone across the globe. Do you think SV salaries would be as high as they are if t…
Of course, people who come from abroad have some effect on the salaries but I think the main reason is that life quality is really high in Europe (especially in Germany) so employees don't negotiate properly for their salary. When I talk with my colleagues, most of them are saying that the money that they earn is enough, there is no reason to ask for more.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯