Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's more referring to compensation. If you're only offering half the pay of some of the alternatives, you're simply not going to get a shot at most of the highest-skilled job seekers. They will, sensibly, tend to go work for the highest-paying employers. Free market for labor and all that.
What about all the skilled software engineers that DON'T want to live in SF.
Downsides to working at a tech giant
481–490 of 583 posts
Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant
#482For all the startup founders and VCs in this conversation, you are cheap motherf*ckers. When I read that engineers and employees prefer FAANG companies because they pay better, I want to remind you that it wasn't always like this. 10-15 years ago startups paid way better than big tech. Big Tech rewarded you by getting to specialize on problems and working at scale. The reason FB and Google pay well is because when th…
Google and FB were paying less when they were founded than most startups I see today, adjusted for inflation. The difference is that now Google and FB pay way more . More than startups could ever dream of competing with. Everyone I know at FB or Google is making $225k+, with the average/median being around $300k/yr. Absolutely no way new startups can play ball with those salaries, and FB/GOOG certainly weren’t paying…
Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant
#483Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google and FB were paying less when they were founded than most startups I see today, adjusted for inflation. The difference is that now Google and FB pay way more . More than startups could ever dream of competing with. Everyone I know at FB or Google is making $225k+, with the average/median being around $300k/yr. Absolutely no way new startups can play ball with those salaries, and FB/GOOG certainly weren’t paying…
Most startups can't match G/FB on cash, but they can do much better than they are on equity amounts, equity terms, work-life balance, etc. For example, what is the option exercise window if you leave Lambda?
Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant
#484For all the startup founders and VCs in this conversation, you are cheap motherf*ckers. When I read that engineers and employees prefer FAANG companies because they pay better, I want to remind you that it wasn't always like this. 10-15 years ago startups paid way better than big tech. Big Tech rewarded you by getting to specialize on problems and working at scale. The reason FB and Google pay well is because when th…
I think the problem is that startups don't offer enough equity. Google offers a couple hundred thousand PLUS options worth > 100k present value . If a startup wants to pay you enough to compensate, the options need to be worth > 100k present value (even if this means 1% of the company). Otherwise you'd be better off working for google and buying equity in the startup rather than breaking your back working there.
Yeah, just go to Walmart and find the startup equity behind the underwear to your left.
Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant
#485Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant
#486Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you need to reform employee stock options - in the UK there are far less possibilities to screw employees over stock options.
Absolutely, stock options in the US are super strange, they can be performance tied and for non-qualified shares. The thing I'd actually like to see is a better default governance for companies - companies are wholly owned by founders and I think there is just something fundamentally wrong with treating all employees as contractors by default until it's decided to grant them options or actual ownership. A bunch of pe…
Then there’s advisors and execs. You can enter into an A stage startup as an exec or an advisor and generally expect ~1% equity post dilution. This easily eclipses all but the first few early employees who have been working their asses off with much less comp for a much longer time. Maybe really good execs and advisors are game changers but I haven’t seen it play out in practice. More often than not success of the early few hides failure of the new leadership to do anything remotely resembling what they’re paid so preciously to do.
So in the current market the only valuable part of working at a small gig becomes the alignment of risk profiles and consequential networking, and the do or die environment that accompanies an 18 month runway. I think these are good experiences for anybody to have at some point in their career. But since most people are rational they look at the numbers and it just doesn’t add up.
Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant
#487Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you need to reform employee stock options - in the UK there are far less possibilities to screw employees over stock options.
Absolutely, stock options in the US are super strange, they can be performance tied and for non-qualified shares. The thing I'd actually like to see is a better default governance for companies - companies are wholly owned by founders and I think there is just something fundamentally wrong with treating all employees as contractors by default until it's decided to grant them options or actual ownership. A bunch of pe…
Why should equity be a default option? Most startups fail so that's like saying workers should get something that has a high probability of being worthless while suffering all the tax implications. If anything equity should be decreased. Startups are better off competing on cash and other benefits like work flexibility and increased responsibility.
Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant
#488Earlier quoted context omitted.
Surprisingly, these sorts of people are both not that rare and relatively straightforward to connect with. A year of low level engineer’s salary is, relatively speaking, not a lot of money in our industry/society, regardless of what that figure ultimately works out to as an integer.
There are 607 billionaires in the US out of 320 million people. You need to meet over half a million people to average one person with Peter Thiel's level of wealth.
Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant
#489Earlier quoted context omitted.
Absolutely, stock options in the US are super strange, they can be performance tied and for non-qualified shares. The thing I'd actually like to see is a better default governance for companies - companies are wholly owned by founders and I think there is just something fundamentally wrong with treating all employees as contractors by default until it's decided to grant them options or actual ownership. A bunch of pe…
This. There is really no reason a founder deserves as much equity as they generally give themselves (I know the investors also have a say in what an acceptable cap table looks like so it’s not just on founders). If early stage startup founders split equity more evenly I think the numbers would start to make more sense. Maybe like 10% founder, 5% first 5, 2.5% next 5, and then 15% equity pool as you grow from 10 to 50…
I've yet to see someone who thinks otherwise actually go out and start a company. Perhaps it's because the calculus changes when it's your business and livelihood on the line.
Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant
#490Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its not pessimism. People should just get to hear both sides, and know that VCs typically offer this advise because, first and foremost, it benefits the VCs. The VC typically has enough money to be set for life, several times over. They bet on many companies simultaneously to diversify their own risk. Most companies will fail, and the employees will go down with the ship, but the VC only needs a handful of bets to pa…
I started in 2006, here, just like you, reading Hacker News. I spent most of my day writing code. I learned on this site how to build things for other people, ship and release them, and yes, eventually build a company. I learned I wasn't meant to have a boss. The only reason I became a VC is that I want to be here to help people who really should be start companies actually figure out that they can! People helped me…
But note that this game is not as much costly for you as the founder. Founder takes bigger risks in terms of their time and opportunity costs than you as a VC. You will probably find your successful pick in the other founder you fund and designate that other guy “the most capable”.