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Downsides to working at a tech giant

blog.garrytan.com

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Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#431

Post by CydeWeys »

Apocryphon wrote: post #337
nojvek wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BigTech is insanely big right now. Basically advertising and cloud are humongous cash cows. It’s a good time to work for BigTech and build some safety net. But then again it’s only Google and FB that pay above the line. Microsoft and Amazon salaries, last I checked were pretty subpar.

Apple is not known for paying great, either. So one wonders if it really is just Google and Facebook pumping the market up.

A lot of Amazon engineers have done amazingly well over the past 5 years what with the huge run-up in stock prices. This may not continue going forward, but don't underestimate how much bank they've made recently.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#432

Post by CydeWeys »

senordevnyc wrote: post #122
opportune wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other big thing messing up startup comp right now are super-high valuations for mid stage companies. When you’re getting options based off an inflated evaluation your upside is low, and the probability your options become worth $0 even if the startup does moderately well (eg if it raises a round at $4b right before you start and goes public for $3b). Doesn’t matter how many options you got, they were pegged to an…

Agreed. People are madly in love with working at companies like Stripe and Airbnb right now, but I'm not convinced the risk is worth it. They're giving out equity as if it's liquid, but it's not. So if I can get $200k per year in equity from Stripe or $200k per year in equity from Google, why exactly would I choose Stripe or Airbnb? Just in the hopes that the $200k will end up worth $400k or $800k? I mean, maybe it w…

Google at least is insanely profitable. Are Stripe and Airbnb?

Seems to me that there's less risk in the Google stock than the others, because the others need a lot of potential future upside to justify their high valuations absent major profits, and if that upside fails to materialize the valuations will tank (as we're seeing with, e.g., Lyft).

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#433

Post by lainga »

CydeWeys wrote: post #430
lainga wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought FAANG weren't hiring 35-year-olds?

Definitely not true. It seems to me that, if anything, Google has been prioritizing experienced industry hires recently, many of whom are in that age range.

That's interesting. Does "recently" mean it was not always so? My untested and rumour-based thoughts had been that they skewed towards younger (no family/ties/more energy/less negotiation skills) employees, and you were dead after 30.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#434

Post by forrestthewoods »

TuringNYC wrote: post #350
austenallred wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and FB were paying less when they were founded than most startups I see today, adjusted for inflation. The difference is that now Google and FB pay way more . More than startups could ever dream of competing with. Everyone I know at FB or Google is making $225k+, with the average/median being around $300k/yr. Absolutely no way new startups can play ball with those salaries, and FB/GOOG certainly weren’t paying…

>> Google and FB were paying less when they were founded than most startups I see today, adjusted for inflation. You'd have to adjust quite a bit for inflation. The average rent has skyrocketed 300% since the time Google was a pre-IPO company. I would not mind a "low" Google 2004 salary if I could somehow also lock down a Mountain View 2004 mortgage. Also, tuition and student loans have risen. So while im at it, i'd…

> average rent has skyrocketed 300%

The world is bigger than SF. Seattle enjoys the same payscale with half the housing costs.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#435

Post by KKKKkkkk1 »

Let me make sure I get this straight. On the one hand, by not working for a startup, you're missing out on at least $1.6M of value you're creating every year for your employer. You might even be missing out on $200M like Mr. Tan did. On the other hand, working for a startup "is not about the money". So you should be ok with getting less money because you're getting access to users and customers.

That's a pretty muddled message. Is Mr. Tan offering unbiased advice or does he have some kind of ax to grind here?

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#436

Post by malandrew »

garry wrote: post #257
thatsenough wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not pessimism. People should just get to hear both sides, and know that VCs typically offer this advise because, first and foremost, it benefits the VCs. The VC typically has enough money to be set for life, several times over. They bet on many companies simultaneously to diversify their own risk. Most companies will fail, and the employees will go down with the ship, but the VC only needs a handful of bets to pa…

I started in 2006, here, just like you, reading Hacker News. I spent most of my day writing code. I learned on this site how to build things for other people, ship and release them, and yes, eventually build a company. I learned I wasn't meant to have a boss. The only reason I became a VC is that I want to be here to help people who really should be start companies actually figure out that they can! People helped me…

I’ve been active on HN almost as long as you. It’s not 2006 anymore. I would still follow the same career path based on what the world, HN and Silicon Valley were like in 2006. I wouldn’t based on 2020 world, HN and Silicon Valley. Would you?

Rents are astronomical. Startup math has worsened. FANG math has improved. In fact only the G in FANG even resembled the FANG of today. FANG has done a great job figuring out the innovator’s dilemma, making disruption in all their verticals much more challenging. The low-hanging fruit problems are gone so there aren’t really any two engineers in a garage problems that someone well capitalized can’t quickly copy. You now need generalist engineers, designers, AL/ML/DS engineers, hardware people, etc. on a founding team, meaning that you need to take on sizeable VC money before building IP equity and getting product market fit.

Startup risk is way way worse these days.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#437

Post by senordevnyc »

austenallred wrote: post #284
jarjoura wrote: post #221

For all the startup founders and VCs in this conversation, you are cheap motherf*ckers. When I read that engineers and employees prefer FAANG companies because they pay better, I want to remind you that it wasn't always like this. 10-15 years ago startups paid way better than big tech. Big Tech rewarded you by getting to specialize on problems and working at scale. The reason FB and Google pay well is because when th…

Google and FB were paying less when they were founded than most startups I see today, adjusted for inflation. The difference is that now Google and FB pay way more . More than startups could ever dream of competing with. Everyone I know at FB or Google is making $225k+, with the average/median being around $300k/yr. Absolutely no way new startups can play ball with those salaries, and FB/GOOG certainly weren’t paying…

Most startups can't match G/FB on cash, but they can do much better than they are on equity amounts, equity terms, work-life balance, etc.

For example, what is the option exercise window if you leave Lambda?

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#438

Post by t3rabytes »

Grimm1 wrote: post #411
tracer4201 wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I misunderstood what you’re saying here but I don’t think it’s accurate. My salary plus stock compensation has been $300K+ each year as long as I’ve been with my company. Of course there’s market volatility in RSUs but I have yet to take home less than $300K in any year during the 5 years I’ve been at a FAANG. I’m an engineer FWIW.

I may be inaccurate, I've been using sites like payscale to do the measuring here for averages. If that really is the case then RSUs are quite insane and I'd have to revise my statement. Edit: The sites I'm using make it seem like the RSU compensation is the one time grant for 100k+ over the 4 year period so if its really a 400k+ stock grant over the 4year period then yes there's really no way to compete with that fo…

Try something like levels.fyi that lists the RSUs on a yearly scale.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#439

Post by clpwn »

Please, engineers, pay attention to the ethical implications of your creations.

You can't talk about how much money you make (or could have made) and disregard the pain you cause people in the process. Not all startups are equally unethical, and Palantir is famously one of the most closely tied to so much human suffering in the world.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#440

Post by throwaway1777 »

bradleyjg wrote: post #329
throwaway1777 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RSU will make you pay tax at the marginal rate though instead of long term cap gains on options.

NQSOs have the same issue and ISOs are increasingly difficult to issue as startups get to mid and late stages.

Valid points
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