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Downsides to working at a tech giant

blog.garrytan.com

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Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#411

Post by Grimm1 »

tracer4201 wrote: post #409
Grimm1 wrote: post #400

Edit: The sites I'm using make it seem like the RSU compensation is the one time grant for 100k+ over the 4 year period so if its really a 400k+ stock grant over the 4year period then yes there's really no way to compete with that for early stage companies and leaving that amount of money on the table is inadvisable if you can avoid it. That said I still hold my point about the type of experience you'll gain at a sta…

Maybe I misunderstood what you’re saying here but I don’t think it’s accurate. My salary plus stock compensation has been $300K+ each year as long as I’ve been with my company. Of course there’s market volatility in RSUs but I have yet to take home less than $300K in any year during the 5 years I’ve been at a FAANG. I’m an engineer FWIW.

I may be inaccurate, I've been using sites like payscale to do the measuring here for averages. If that really is the case then RSUs are quite insane and I'd have to revise my statement.

Edit: The sites I'm using make it seem like the RSU compensation is the one time grant for 100k+ over the 4 year period so if its really a 400k+ stock grant over the 4year period then yes there's really no way to compete with that for early stage companies and leaving that amount of money on the table is inadvisable if you can avoid it.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#412

Post by throwaway3563 »

jarjoura wrote: post #221

For all the startup founders and VCs in this conversation, you are cheap motherf*ckers. When I read that engineers and employees prefer FAANG companies because they pay better, I want to remind you that it wasn't always like this. 10-15 years ago startups paid way better than big tech. Big Tech rewarded you by getting to specialize on problems and working at scale. The reason FB and Google pay well is because when th…

Exactly. There get so many startup positions advertised, even here on HN, where the job description summarizes as “build our product from the ground up” and the offere salary is below par and the offered equity is an insultingly low number like 0.2%.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#413

Post by lainga »

opportune wrote: post #269
jarjoura wrote: post #221

For all the startup founders and VCs in this conversation, you are cheap motherf*ckers. When I read that engineers and employees prefer FAANG companies because they pay better, I want to remind you that it wasn't always like this. 10-15 years ago startups paid way better than big tech. Big Tech rewarded you by getting to specialize on problems and working at scale. The reason FB and Google pay well is because when th…

Absolutely this. A lot of startups these days skimp by hiring sub-FAANG SWEs with less than 5 yoe, and it shows in their products. Lack of product maturity, bad engineering (worst horror story I’ve heard recently is Wayfair), resume driven development / over-engineering / cargo culting, huge teams to work on simple features. All so they can hire two middle-skill 22 year olds instead of a skilled 35 year old. If you’r…

I thought FAANG weren't hiring 35-year-olds?

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#414

Post by alexandercrohde »

jarjoura wrote: post #221

For all the startup founders and VCs in this conversation, you are cheap motherf*ckers. When I read that engineers and employees prefer FAANG companies because they pay better, I want to remind you that it wasn't always like this. 10-15 years ago startups paid way better than big tech. Big Tech rewarded you by getting to specialize on problems and working at scale. The reason FB and Google pay well is because when th…

I think the problem is that startups don't offer enough equity. Google offers a couple hundred thousand PLUS options worth > 100k present value.

If a startup wants to pay you enough to compensate, the options need to be worth > 100k present value (even if this means 1% of the company). Otherwise you'd be better off working for google and buying equity in the startup rather than breaking your back working there.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#415

Post by keithwhor »

bilekas wrote: post #317
keithwhor wrote: post #90

The pessimism in this thread really bothers me. I’ve read anecdotes on entrepreneurship being on the decline, but it pains me to read so many negative takes on startups. We’re actively training our young people to avoid taking risks, and it’s going to fuck us — especially if some of those young people have the ambition be early employees at, say, a startup that takes on climate change in a big way. Look — the fact th…

Just based on your rebuttal, background knowledge and common sense alone, please write up an article, even if you only flesh out the points you made. I agree with as much as I can relate to, but the rest begs for more story!

Thanks for the feedback. This thread has me thinking about a blog post. I don’t write as much as I’d like to because I feel as though I’m still testing my worldview / hypotheses, and I don’t like delivering half-assed products. :)

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#416

Post by freddie_mercury »

senordevnyc wrote: post #21

This is such a weird post. Big fan of Garry, but I don't agree with most of this. 1. Just because it turned out that you would have made $200mm doesn't make it a mistake. If anything, that outsized return proves just how rare this kind of outcome is. If you look at the YC startups graduating every year, maybe 1 will ever generate $20mm for an early employee, let alone $200mm. Joining a new startup for that kind of ou…

> If you look at the YC startups graduating every year, maybe 1 will ever generate $20mm for an early employee

YCombinator -- like all other VCs -- has the data trivially available to show actual compensation of early employees across entire classes of startups and not just cherry-picked best cases. After all, they have the cap tables and the exit dollar figures and how long it took to reach those exits and how many never exited. They probably show that stuff under NDAs to their LPs.

Just not to engineers.

Since YC, like every other VC, has never bothered to publish that kind of data I have to assume it doesn't support their boosterism case for working for a startup.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#417

Post by christiansakai »

garry wrote: post #131
thecleaner wrote: post #12

This vlog is more of a cheap advertisement for the "oh work for a startup it's great" nonsense school. I don't really understand why I would work in an environment where the pay is shit and the issued stocks can be re-classified or diluted or just taken away by lay-offs. Makes no sense.

I started here on Hacker News as a software engineer. I learned that I could build software for others, ship it and release it. I did end up taking the venture path, and now help others on that path. The key here is that magic can be created by people, and I'm not that different than a lot of people on this site. I also got very lucky, and I'm thankful for that. Startups are hard, and most fail, and most startup stoc…

Just want to say that I appreciate the post. I am considering whether to go to a smaller startup for my next job, or just go to a big company.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#418

Post by opportune »

lainga wrote: post #413
opportune wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely this. A lot of startups these days skimp by hiring sub-FAANG SWEs with less than 5 yoe, and it shows in their products. Lack of product maturity, bad engineering (worst horror story I’ve heard recently is Wayfair), resume driven development / over-engineering / cargo culting, huge teams to work on simple features. All so they can hire two middle-skill 22 year olds instead of a skilled 35 year old. If you’r…

I thought FAANG weren't hiring 35-year-olds?

There are tons of 35 year olds at FAANG and they do hire a lot of people who are currently 35 too.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#419

Post by shuckles »

A fellow named Paul Graham once speculated that it was not beyond reason to offer your first employee a >6% share in your company [1]. I've received first employee offers from startups for under 1%. This explains most of the difference for my decision.

[1] http://www.paulgraham.com/equity.html

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#420

Post by WalterBright »

keithwhor wrote: post #90

The pessimism in this thread really bothers me. I’ve read anecdotes on entrepreneurship being on the decline, but it pains me to read so many negative takes on startups. We’re actively training our young people to avoid taking risks, and it’s going to fuck us — especially if some of those young people have the ambition be early employees at, say, a startup that takes on climate change in a big way. Look — the fact th…

> The pessimism in this thread really bothers me.

I wouldn't worry about it. Every venture I've started, successful and failures, came with everyone telling me I had no chance.

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