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Facebook Discovers Fake AI-Generated Profiles

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Re: Facebook Discovers Fake AI-Generated Profiles

#211
post #152
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Feasible? Sure, to the limits of what we can do with secure enclaves today. Desirable? Well, you've created a system that authenticates a camera as being at a place at a time. It's a good way to authenticate photos, but a bad way to stay anonymous. How do you feel about photographers and journalists becoming even larger targets for anyone who wants to keep a secret?

In the past the actual image authenticated that the camera was at a place at a time, and anonymity was preserved. The issue is : does it authenticate that a particular camera that belongs to a particular person is/was at a place at a time and produced an image - because if so then if the device is found in a search the owner/user/keeper is in hot water. So the camera must be anonymous - but it must be impossible for…

If you assume that "Anyone could have been using that camera!" is a defense, you're absolutely correct.

It's perhaps worth considering that an authoritarian government might not trouble itself with such legal niceties. All they have to do is mandate that journalists with cameras register their keys, make possession of a camera with an unregistered key criminal, and track sales / border entries. China springs to mind as a country that might do such a thing.

Again, you're absolutely correct in asserting that anonymity of camera-user is important! It's just perhaps worth considering how linking hardware to images might undermine that in dangerous ways.

Re: Facebook Discovers Fake AI-Generated Profiles

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So why is it still there? Why is it part of the Christian Canon? Because it provides important context for later material, e.g., Acts 15. The controversy in the early Christian Community over the application of the Jewish ritual law to gentile Christians is hard to understand without the Jewish ritual law. Also, not all Christians are gentile Christians.

Thanks. Maybe this is a dumb question (having had no religious instruction) but do all modern Christians (except, I guess, some fundamentalists) understand that the Old Testament doesn't apply to them? If that's so, it seems like that stuff should be flagged somehow, to avoid misunderstandings. Or do some modern gentile Christians perhaps go further, and believe that the old Jewish ritual law was a misunderstanding,…

> Also, who are the modern non-gentile Christians?

That sounds like Messianic Judaism.

Re: Facebook Discovers Fake AI-Generated Profiles

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. Maybe this is a dumb question (having had no religious instruction) but do all modern Christians (except, I guess, some fundamentalists) understand that the Old Testament doesn't apply to them? If that's so, it seems like that stuff should be flagged somehow, to avoid misunderstandings. Or do some modern gentile Christians perhaps go further, and believe that the old Jewish ritual law was a misunderstanding,…

> Maybe this is a dumb question (having had no religious instruction) but do all modern Christians (except, I guess, some fundamentalists) understand that the Old Testament doesn't apply to them? I know of no modern Christian group that doesn't have a general understanding that the applicability of the OT law to Christians is, at a minimum, limited by the explicit terms of Acts 15. OTOH, there's obviously quite a bit…

FWIW, I've met a Dominionist family that practiced the entirety of OT, including all the ritual purity laws. I never really clarified it, but it sounded like it was a thing in their local denomination in general.

They also did believe that the government should be structured according to those same OT provisions, and enforce them as laws.

Re: Facebook Discovers Fake AI-Generated Profiles

#214
post #196
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s fine that you interpret the bible that way. Certainly I’ve seen Christian pro-gay-rights memes that say Jesus never mentioned homosexuality. Unfortunately, this whole thread seems to be on the topic of “It’s a shame that mass-dissemination of information demonstrably fails to make the best ideas into the most popular ideas [0]” — and although you interpret the bible that way, I’ve witnessed many profess Christia…

To paraphrase someone else "to the extent that their beliefs and actions differ from the words and deeds of Christ they are not Christians". Remember there have been 1000's of people practicing grotesque child abuse while professing Christianity, and yet one of the most frank and flat statements of Christ is "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone…

If that approach is followed consistently, we'd likely have to conclude that "real Christians" were largely wiped out in the early persecutions. The modern Christian tradition is firmly rooted in the government-mandated imperial cult that was established by the Edict of Thessalonica.

Re: Facebook Discovers Fake AI-Generated Profiles

#215
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You then run the risk of excluding developing economies. Unless you adjust the payment to be region specific, in which case you’d just get foreign powers (be that corporations or state sponsored) using their wealth to fund hordes of new registrations from said developing economies; thus negating the benefit of a sign up fee.

As someone who grew up in a developing economy, I find this view extremely patronizing. Usually, what happens is that a local company fills that demand gap. Also, I think it is good for all parties concerned, because most developing economies will have a big problem becoming developed economies if their people are under constant surveillance from entities who may benefit from their continuation as developing economie…

> As someone who grew up in a developing economy, I find this view extremely patronizing. Usually, what happens is that a local company fills that demand gap.

...which means if a western subscription services wants to compete with a cheaper local equivalent, they need to charge a comparable local rate. That’s not patronising, this literally how all businesses work when having to compete with regional price differences.

As for the rest of your post: it sounds like you have a proverbial axe to grind. I’d be the first to agree that there are some serious issues with some of America’s domestic and foreign policies but none of your points are even remotely relevant to the conversation (and some weren’t even remotely based on reality)

Re: Facebook Discovers Fake AI-Generated Profiles

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who grew up in a developing economy, I find this view extremely patronizing. Usually, what happens is that a local company fills that demand gap. Also, I think it is good for all parties concerned, because most developing economies will have a big problem becoming developed economies if their people are under constant surveillance from entities who may benefit from their continuation as developing economie…

> As someone who grew up in a developing economy, I find this view extremely patronizing. Usually, what happens is that a local company fills that demand gap. ...which means if a western subscription services wants to compete with a cheaper local equivalent, they need to charge a comparable local rate. That’s not patronising, this literally how all businesses work when having to compete with regional price difference…

>>...which means if a western subscription services wants to compete with a cheaper local equivalent

Interesting comparison. Let us discuss that a little further.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebo...

So Facebook provided free internet to Myanmar, and it was better than the "cheaper local equivalent" because it was actually free. Soon all the ISPs in Myanmar were out of business. Facebook was now synonymous with the internet in Myanmar, and suddenly it became a lot easier to influence people into doing pogroms. Now clearly a "western subscription service" successfully competed, and unfortunately, the pogrom did not affect the "western subscription service" in any way while millions of real humans became refugees.

Generally, people's answer to this is something like "yeah, it is too bad the people were such idiots to be provoked into such violence" or in some way blaming the naivete of the local population. But imagine if Facebook was actually asked to pay compensation for every affected person, or to stop business operations in Myanmar altogether. See, you can actually do that with a local company because they have some real skin in the game.

To complete my point, I don't actually give a damn if a "western subscription service" can compete for my business unless I have a way to drag Zuckerberg (figuratively speaking of course, a minion of Zuckerberg will do) to my country for trial and then send him to the local prison if found guilty of some local law. Think of it as "terms of providing service".

>>it sounds like you have a proverbial axe to grind

Indeed I do. It is called "stop patronizing the people of my country".

>>none of your points are even remotely relevant to the conversation

If you feel so, that's OK, although I would obviously like to see a more specific refutation.

Re: Facebook Discovers Fake AI-Generated Profiles

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As someone who grew up in a developing economy, I find this view extremely patronizing. Usually, what happens is that a local company fills that demand gap. ...which means if a western subscription services wants to compete with a cheaper local equivalent, they need to charge a comparable local rate. That’s not patronising, this literally how all businesses work when having to compete with regional price difference…

>>...which means if a western subscription services wants to compete with a cheaper local equivalent Interesting comparison. Let us discuss that a little further. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebo... So Facebook provided free internet to Myanmar, and it was better than the "cheaper local equivalent" because it was actually free. Soon all the ISPs in Myanmar were out of business. Facebook wa…

Facebook is an edge case because that’s a problem in every country and frankly that whole “free internet” mission was clearly a bullshit move from the outset (even people in the west weren’t the slightest bit convinced by Zuckerburgs motives). However that still doesn’t prove your claim that every western company exists in developing counties specifically to further your economic strife (which is the accusation you’re levelling against the west).

If you want to argue that American corporate culture is a toxic breed of short-sighted greed or that developing economies are better served with local businesses then at least try to do so without all the conspiracy theories and personal attacks. It’s not exactly a hard topic to argue rationally after all.

> Indeed I do. It is called "stop patronizing the people of my country".

It’s not “patronising“ to say that companies need to offer regional rates to compete in regional economies.

You might argue that its unfair to put local companies out of business or that western corporations deserve no claim in developing nations; but that’s categorically not what “patronising” means (and also a very different point to the one I was making).

Don’t just take my word for it though, look the word up in any of the numerous online dictionaries :)

>> none of your points are even remotely relevant to the conversation.

> If you feel so, that's OK, although I would obviously like to see a more specific refutation.

I wasn’t trying to refute your claims (mainly because most of them were far fetched - even by your own admission). I was saying they’re a complete tangent to the topic of conversation.

Look, if you want to bleat on about the evils of western influence on developing economies then fine. But at least acknowledge it’s a largely unrelated rant to the conversation that precedes it.....and also don’t make accusations about other HN posters when you don’t understand the terms you’re accusing them of.

Re: Facebook Discovers Fake AI-Generated Profiles

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>...which means if a western subscription services wants to compete with a cheaper local equivalent Interesting comparison. Let us discuss that a little further. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebo... So Facebook provided free internet to Myanmar, and it was better than the "cheaper local equivalent" because it was actually free. Soon all the ISPs in Myanmar were out of business. Facebook wa…

Facebook is an edge case because that’s a problem in every country and frankly that whole “free internet” mission was clearly a bullshit move from the outset (even people in the west weren’t the slightest bit convinced by Zuckerburgs motives). However that still doesn’t prove your claim that every western company exists in developing counties specifically to further your economic strife (which is the accusation you’r…

>>Don’t just take my word for it though, look the word up in any of the numerous online dictionaries :)

>>You then run the risk of excluding developing economies

"Patronizing: apparently kind or helpful but betraying a feeling of superiority; condescending"

I see. So, let us back up a little to your first statement. Why is the risk of excluding developing economies a problem (for the developing economy), again? I will be very happy to take back my assumption about what you implied there, provided you can give me an explanation for why it is a "risk" and who actually bears the risk.

>>Facebook is an edge case because that’s a problem in every country

It is not an edge case if it leads to making assumptions which are clearly bad for our future. Because Facebook isn't getting any real punishment, people are only going to say "Nothing happened to Facebook. Why should the other companies worry about lying to governments/ lying to customers/ privacy issues/ data collection / retargeting / lookalike audience" etc.

>>However that still doesn’t prove your claim that every western company exists in developing counties specifically to further your economic strife (which is the accusation you’re levelling against the west)

I am not sure why you feel that way. Specifically, what I am saying is that I don't like people starting off with statements such as "you then run the risk of excluding developing economies" as if that is automatically a bad thing for the developing economies.

Re: Facebook Discovers Fake AI-Generated Profiles

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is an edge case because that’s a problem in every country and frankly that whole “free internet” mission was clearly a bullshit move from the outset (even people in the west weren’t the slightest bit convinced by Zuckerburgs motives). However that still doesn’t prove your claim that every western company exists in developing counties specifically to further your economic strife (which is the accusation you’r…

>>Don’t just take my word for it though, look the word up in any of the numerous online dictionaries :) >>You then run the risk of excluding developing economies "Patronizing: apparently kind or helpful but betraying a feeling of superiority; condescending" I see. So, let us back up a little to your first statement. Why is the risk of excluding developing economies a problem (for the developing economy), again? I wil…

> I see. So, let us back up a little to your first statement. Why is the risk of excluding developing economies a problem (for the developing economy), again?

This is the question you should have opened with :)

I never said it was a problem for the developing country. I was talking purely about the economics of Facebook. If they (Facebook) want to expend their demographic then they would need be affordable in each economic environment. Whether you (the respective county) want them there or not is another matter entirely.

Frankly I’d be happier if Facebook failed in my own country rather than expanded their global presence into yours as well; but that wasn’t the topic being discussed at that time.

> It is not an edge case if it leads to making assumptions which are clearly bad for our future.

Technically it still would be when using the correct definition of edge case ;)

> Because Facebook isn't getting any real punishment, people are only going to say "Nothing happened to Facebook. Why should the other companies worry about lying to governments/ lying to customers/ privacy issues/ data collection / retargeting / lookalike audience" etc.

I agree that’s a problem but, once again, you’re arguing a completely different topic.

> I am not sure why you feel that way.

Frankly put: because I’m not biased. You feel like you’ve had an injustice so you’re lashing out at everyone. I totally get that. I’ve been really privileged to grow up in the U.K. but I’ve also spent a lot of time in developing countries so I’ve seen both sides of the argument.

> Specifically, what I am saying is that I don't like people starting off with statements such as "you then run the risk of excluding developing economies" as if that is automatically a bad thing for the developing economies.

That literally wasn’t what was said though. The context was never about what was good or bad for those counties; economically, socially, not by any other metric. The context of my original post and the entire chain of conversation that preceded it was a theoretic one about how Facebook might counter abuse on its platform. The context was always about Facebook specifically. This is why I have repeatedly said you’ve gone waaaaaay off topic.

If you want to change the conversation to the evils of western corporations then please bare in mind that HN is ostensibly a tech and business forum so people will often talk about things from the perspective of tech giants even if they don’t actually support the operations of those corporations. Thus it would benefit everyone if you didn’t jump to conclusions, making personal accusations about the opinions of HN posters on entirely different subject matters just because they happen to make an impartial point on a company you have a personal vendetta against.

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