> Today, physicists still lack evidence of other universes, or even good ideas for obtaining evidence. Until this is no longer true, I will view discussions of the multiverse as akin to medieval philosophers discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. One of the biggest lessons of the scientific revolution is that logic alone is a poor predictor of reality. We need at some point to go out and test our…
New books mount aggressive but ultimately unpersuasive defenses of multiverses
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Re: New books mount aggressive but ultimately unpersuasive defenses of multiverses
#12Shouldn’t the default position be that a multiverse exist? A multiverse is what logic suggests (starting with “a point in motion is a line” and moving up to higher dimensions)
Also, what you're describing sounds more like a multi-dimensional (above the ones we're aware of) universe rather than a multiverse.
Re: New books mount aggressive but ultimately unpersuasive defenses of multiverses
#13Shouldn’t the default position be that a multiverse exist? A multiverse is what logic suggests (starting with “a point in motion is a line” and moving up to higher dimensions)
This parsimony question also overlaps the Simulation Hypothesis: the fact that most physical laws resolve at macro-scale, by aggregating probabilities, and only break down into odd behavior (where a particle seems to care whether or not you're looking), smells to this programmer like an optimization hack. :)
Just started reading Donald Hoffman's "The Case Against Reality", which posits some very bold answers to this question, theorizing that there is no reason to assume that base reality is anything like our perceptions (subjective or scientific), any more than there's a reason to assume the perception of a desktop icon has a direct relationship with its filesystem implementation. The implications of a "consciousness-first" rather than "matter-first" explanation of existence are staggering, and it isn't hard to set up a model in which that explanation is more parsimonious than Multiple Worlds.
Re: New books mount aggressive but ultimately unpersuasive defenses of multiverses
#14Re: New books mount aggressive but ultimately unpersuasive defenses of multiverses
#15> “ The universe supposedly splits, or branches, whenever one quantum particle jostles against another, making their wave functions collapse.” I’m very tired of seeing pop science articles describe this so incorrectly. It’s a similar mistake as describing quantum computing as simultaneously trying a bunch of solution states “in parallel.” The multiverse theory doesn’t imply any “splitting” action and certainly no suc…
I’ll try to explain why, using your random variable sampling analogy, which is telling. In the case of say, sampling from a coin toss random variable, there is indeed a more primitive explanation for why the coin comes up heads or tails, it’s just that it would be a much more complicated explanation involving knowledge of huge amounts of detail about the exact force applied to the coin, maybe air currents in the area where coin is being flipped, etc. But in principle that is all explainable.
With quantum measurement, there is no such explanation available, even in principle. We are told only that we will find ourselves in one of the possibilities admitted by the distribution predicted by QM. We have no further explanation for which one it will be. The QM multiverse folks then expect us to be okay with this as the end of the explanation. But notice this is a choice to adopt something as axiomatic. We could have done that at other points in the history of physics but didn’t.
Re: New books mount aggressive but ultimately unpersuasive defenses of multiverses
#16> “ The universe supposedly splits, or branches, whenever one quantum particle jostles against another, making their wave functions collapse.” I’m very tired of seeing pop science articles describe this so incorrectly. It’s a similar mistake as describing quantum computing as simultaneously trying a bunch of solution states “in parallel.” The multiverse theory doesn’t imply any “splitting” action and certainly no suc…
That's ridiculous. The Copenhagen Interpretation is still the prevailing view, among MANY others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mec...
Further, the science is settled, so anyone who disagrees is a denier? Is that you, Mr. Carroll?
Re: New books mount aggressive but ultimately unpersuasive defenses of multiverses
#17Science cannot resolve the existence of either God or the multiverse, making agnosticism the only sensible position.
Science also can't refute me being a brain in the vat, or the universe having been created last thursday with the appearance of age. It's not only ok to commit to beliefs that cannot be proven scientifically, it is necessary.
Moreover, at a time when our world, the real world, faces serious problems, dwelling on multiverses strikes me as escapism—akin to billionaires fantasizing about colonizing Mars. Shouldn’t scientists do something more productive with their time?
Why stop at the natural sciences? Let's get rid of all the useless parts of mathematics - or art and music, for that matter...
If you restricted human endeavours to the utilitarian, the world would be poorer for it.
Re: New books mount aggressive but ultimately unpersuasive defenses of multiverses
#18Shouldn’t the default position be that a multiverse exist? A multiverse is what logic suggests (starting with “a point in motion is a line” and moving up to higher dimensions)
I don't think the default position should ever be that physical phenomena without empirical evidence exist... Also, what you're describing sounds more like a multi-dimensional (above the ones we're aware of) universe rather than a multiverse.
> what you're describing sounds more like a multi-dimensional (above the ones we're aware of) universe rather than a multiverse.
We’re aware of the possibility that we might do something, or could have done something. Does that count as an awareness of higher dimensions?I don’t know enough about physics to understand how a multi-dimensional (above 4D) universe is different than a multiverse. I assumed they were one and the same concept.
Re: New books mount aggressive but ultimately unpersuasive defenses of multiverses
#19Shouldn’t the default position be that a multiverse exist? A multiverse is what logic suggests (starting with “a point in motion is a line” and moving up to higher dimensions)
Re: New books mount aggressive but ultimately unpersuasive defenses of multiverses
#20> “ The universe supposedly splits, or branches, whenever one quantum particle jostles against another, making their wave functions collapse.” I’m very tired of seeing pop science articles describe this so incorrectly. It’s a similar mistake as describing quantum computing as simultaneously trying a bunch of solution states “in parallel.” The multiverse theory doesn’t imply any “splitting” action and certainly no suc…
Uh, no it isn't; we have zero evidence of a multi-verse. Math is not evidence, it can only help point to evidence.