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Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

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Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#471
post #25

I never owned an iOS device personally and when I offered my help to an older relative who wanted to bookmark a page on their home screen, it took me like 10 minutes to find out that I have to scroll horizontally on that Safari share menu. Due to the auto-hiding scrollbar and no cut off icons to the right, I had no idea that scrolling horizontally was possible. This gets worse whenever I see new Apple keynotes about…

It seems to be pretty pervasive everywhere. I'm a longtime iOS user, but have been helping my mom with some stuff on her Android phone. Most of the things I have been helping her with involve me working in the phone settings or Google apps. I've found them very confusing to navigate, and there's little clue as to what should be clicked on. It took me a while to realize that what I was looking at wasn't a list of feat…

It's a menu. The items in a menu don't usually look like buttons on any platform.

And I happen to like the gray text underneath the setting name that tells you the current value of the setting. It makes it clearer what the setting does, and saves you a tap if it's already set how to want it.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#472

The iPad was my gateway into the Apple orchard. I had never purchased an Apple product until about a decade ago, when I got the first Retina iPad as a gift for someone who didn’t use computers. I was so impressed by how intuitive the device and OS was for them, that I installed macOS in a VM on Windows to try iOS development. I fell in love with macOS (back during Lion) shortly before getting my first MacBook and lea…

> I had to enter the Apple/iCloud account credentials multiple times at different points before it stopped asking me to sign in again.

dear god yes. I stopped using my ipad because of this, and I would never purchase another one.

Apple Integration is still top notch, but I agree 100% about their UI. I don't run mac, but I've been an ipad/iphone user for many years and it's definitely gone downhill. I disabled automatic updates and live in fear every time there's a new major version.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#473
post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1Password works natively with iOS... In the standard iOS keyboard when you are in a password field, click on the key icon that pops up and you can select to fill the password from 1pass.

Not for system dialog boxes, like signing into the App Store. I know exactly what he's talking about.

Must be brand new, since I just set up an iPhone 7+ on the latest OS and I got a password autofill suggesting from Firefox Lockwise on the system Apple ID prompt (not during the setup flow, it was an alert dialog from Settings, if I'm remembering correctly).

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#474

So true. I used to be an iPhone user for many years until iPhone 5. My Android phone broke and even though I also own an iPhone 6 for testing, it was so frustrating to use that I'm using my Android tablet as a phone until I fix my actual phone. iOS is just stupid. You have to memorize all these gestures for no reason. No discoverability, I bet most people don't know about 80% of all available gestures. To go back to…

Ive, not Hive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jony_Ive

Ha! You're right. Thanks.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rude user perspective. Don’t be so presumptuous as to think your rude virtual exhalation of breath could represent all users.

Still a user, and that is the point here!! Many developers forget making tools for the user, forget who they are working for, putting there problems first, onto the user. That is the real rudeness here! That I am very tired about and which makes me reluctant to use apps. Too many lazy incompetence ruining app usage. I may be alone with rudeness but definitely not alone with the strong disappointment and reluctance. J…

It is entirely possible to put your point across without being rude; that’s sort of how things are done on HN.

We’re all disappointed about something or other, but we still maintain a basic level of courtesy in our posts on this site.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#476
I bought my first Macbook Pro when OSX was first released, having previously been a fan of NextStep. Was a loyal Apple user until earlier this year. Bought a ThinkPad P1 Extreme. Running Windows 10 Pro with WSL for unixy stuff. Could not be happier. The only thing I miss from my 2015 vintage Macbook Pro is the gesture to click and drag with 3 fingers. I have to tap and drag with one finger.

I bought an iPad for my mom this year. I likely won't buy another one, period. Not sure there is a good enough alternative to my iPhone for when I need to upgrade next but I'll be looking.

AAPL needs to stop making jewelry and start making proper computing machines again.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#477

The iPad was my gateway into the Apple orchard. I had never purchased an Apple product until about a decade ago, when I got the first Retina iPad as a gift for someone who didn’t use computers. I was so impressed by how intuitive the device and OS was for them, that I installed macOS in a VM on Windows to try iOS development. I fell in love with macOS (back during Lion) shortly before getting my first MacBook and lea…

Thanks for posting this. I completely agree, and I think that “put this in front of someone who doesn’t have prior experience of this device” is an acid test for design.

The other replies frustrate me as much as Apple’s design direction, in that they “get it” even less than Apple.

Bad design is not that I can’t figure out how to copy an image from mail. That’s annoying, that could be better, but you’re not even seeing the wood for the trees at that point - it’s the fundamental concepts of design that escape most people.

Like, what do these rows of icons even mean? What do they do? Why is it that tapping on them opens a window with their name in? Is that the right design? What does your user actually want to do, how are you guiding them?

There’s this conceptual clarity to design, and when you see it you shout “yes!” And when it’s absent you mumble a lot, and most nerds cannot even recognise those two modes, let alone approach devising the concepts that underly the clarity. The dead giveaways are the minor pedantic points vs how the entire paradigm is designed.

Android, for example, has this home screen versus the app grid, and it’s not clear why that exists. It seems like a hangover from desktops - here’s my “desktop display” and here’s my “app bank” and no designer would ever think of inventing that paradigm if they were truly reimagining how a omnitool should work. A mobile device isn’t “computing in your pocket”, it’s “a tool that allows you to do things that can change its face and use a network” and you go from there.

This is what Apple get and others don’t, but that should really be past tense as Apple have completely forgotten the thoughtful and deliberate design they’ve always made. Hold and press an icon and you can “share app”, you waaat, like how is that even a feature. Imagine you’re using a penknife and you can “share blade” or you can “share this channel” on a TV. You just totally don’t get it at that point, you’re not designing for the user at that point (cue comments of “yes, I love sharing apps that way” from the 0.0001%).

Despite their nosedive, Apple devices are still the best, and it just feels like we’re waiting for them to get so bad that Android is a cheaper version of awful, and no other company is coming to save us. Someone, for the love of god, start an electronics company that is dominated by a small team of great designers.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#478
post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current versions of iOS 13 and iPadOS 13 having obvious and frequently encountered rendering bugs in safari. If they let this out to users your expectation that they’ll allow the user experience to interfere with their awesomeness is surely going to be unfulfilled. Not to mention those stupid flashlight and camera buttons on the iPhone lock screen whose only explanation is some manager somewhere wanted to make th…

I agree with everything you said until you dissed the flashlight and camera buttons. I use those all the time, via muscle memory. Getting to the camera and flashlight ASAP is critical.

On my xr it's much quicker to get to either of them through control center than holding the button for two seconds. And the way that they are placed, about 15% of the time when I pick up my phone gripping it front-back rather than side-side I activate one of those two things unintentionally.

Plus the trailing edge triggered nature of them is annoying.

It's also anti-user that they can't be disabled/removed per the user's preference.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#479
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This preliminary article has a link at the end to the “real” article, with concrete examples and suggestions: http://www.fastcodesign.com/3053406/how-apple-is-giving-desi...

Okay. Now let’s see where he is wrong What kind of design philosophy requires millions of its users to have to pretend they are disabled in order to be able to use the product? You both get the option to decide what size text and display you want when you start your phone for the first time and the option to change the zoom isn’t under “accessibility” in settings it’s under “Display and Brightness” as are they other…

That article was published in 2015, and the HN submission ends with "(2015)".

> But the back link is system controlled when you open an app from another app on iOS. It is not controlled by the app.

That's the back link to switch to the previous app, but it does not let you navigate within an app.

Having said that, yes, that criticism mostly applied to the "flat" iOS 7 (released in 2013), and some of the problems Apple has fixed in the intervening years, fortunately.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They disabled the pressure sensing on old devices in iOS 13 so it wouldn’t feel like a downgrade on newer phones without pressure sensing.

What? No, I have both an i11 and an i8+ and the 8+ is noticably quicker at showing the 3d touch menu since it has the 3d touch screen.

I believe 3D Touch is disabled by default on devices with 3D Touch. You may have re-enabled it in Accessibility...or you have Touch Duration set to Fast on one and Slow on the other. Or I could be wrong and Apple changed it so 3D Touch is enabled by default on those devices that support it, but it was certainly disabled by default during the Beta phases.

Regardless, it's still available as an option for phones with the 3D Touch hardware.

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