Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens • Hacker News Board

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#451

Post by cmiles74 » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 9:31 PM UTC

robryan wrote: post #435

cattlemansgold wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Starliner mission was a test. You wouldn't have 100% confidence that a test would be executed flawlessly. The purpose of the test is to find flaws in the system, and that's exactly what they did.

That is fair. When a test fails you would also expect them to repeat the test before putting humans on, we will see if that happens.

The article in the Washington Post hinted that NASA might not require them to pass this particular test (automated approach to the ISS and docking).

"It was unclear whether NASA would require Boeing to fly another test mission without crews onboard before allowing its astronauts to fly in the Starliner. Bridenstine said he wouldn’t rule out a mission with crews onboard, pointing out that the space shuttle had been piloted by astronauts, not computers."[0]

While Boeing makes noises about how there's no systemic problem with their ability to write software in general, earlier in the same article NASA comes to their defense by pointing out that if the craft was manned then the test would have been... saved? That seems strong to me but that is word used in the quote.

"NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine said at a news conference Friday that the failure would not have been life-threatening had astronauts been onboard. He said that had the spacecraft been crewed, the mission might have been saved. “They are trained to deal with a situation where the automation is not working according to plan,” he said."

[0]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/12/20/boeing-...

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#452

Post by sokoloff » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 9:32 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #206

linuxftw wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 'we've been saying end of year and end of year could still happen.' Deliberately false and misleading statements that should be prosecuted by the SEC.

I filed an SEC complaint, own a single share of Boeing to have standing. Hopefully something comes of it.

Username checks out.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#453

Post by inferiorhuman » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 9:32 PM UTC

na85 wrote: post #447

inferiorhuman wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that a 320 won't pitch up if you firewall the throttle at low indicated? Correct. An A320 won't pitch up as dramatically as a 737, mostly due to FBW magic.

>An A320 won't pitch up as dramatically as a 737 Ok, glad we agree it'll still pitch up.

Ok, glad we agree it'll still pitch up.

Sure, the difference is that a 737 Classic, NG, or MAX with all of the nannies working can be flown into a stall with lots of throttle at low speed whereas the Airbus cannot. The pitch-power coupling on a 737 is far more problematic than on its competitors.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#454

Post by denimnerd42 » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 9:32 PM UTC

these comments seem woefully out of touch with the situation compared to /r/space. This guy seems to have made some mistakes but they are painting him in a much better light over there.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#455

Post by cameronc56 » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 9:41 PM UTC

guitarbill wrote: post #324

lokedhs wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can do what many other airlines do, which is to make business class so much better that even if econony is nice, business class is so much above that that it's worth the money. I tend to try to travel on Qatar, and their new business class cabins are amazing: https://www.qatarairways.com/en/onboard/qsuite.html It's also cheaper than the (worse) business class on many other airlines.

The inconsistency of business class does make it unappealing though. Sometimes, it's almost first class (Singapore Airlines). Many times, it's barely a step up from economy though, and just feels like a rip off.

Yes, but babies and children do not ride in business class.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#456

Post by sokoloff » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 9:51 PM UTC

ddoolin wrote: post #376

heelix wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The routes and dates really matter. I can fly from MSP to TPA (about 2.1k, about the same) for $28 USD. Now I wont argue Frontier airline is the same quality as Delta or some of the other majors... but airfare prices are really fungible.

I fly Frontier very regularly by quality choice and not by price. The fares are great, but the only other people flying the routes are United (awful awful) and Southwest (great but also pricey). More generally, I am not impressed by any U.S. major, discounting Southwest if they are considered. United, AA, and Delta (least) are pretty abysmal in their quality. It's probably important to be specific when I say "quality…

I fly Delta a fair amount and (with status), Delta seems quite good to me. With even the lowest level of status, there are no bag fees for anything approaching typical luggage load. Their app is fine. Web ticketing seems good to me. Domestically, I can almost always buy an economy ticket and get upgraded to first. Even where I have to pay for it, the upgrades are reasonably priced. During irregular ops (weather typically), they’ve always gotten me there within 18 hours of scheduled. I agree SWA is also good and my only experience recently on United was also good (but in business class Mumbai->Newark, so atypical to say the least).

I suspect flying up front on any of the majors is fine. Economy experience is driven by a race to the bottom price-wise, but if you want cheap travel, it’s readily available. If you want comfortable travel, that’s also on offer.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#457

Post by cardiffspaceman » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 9:52 PM UTC

johnnyletrois wrote: post #450

papito wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In contrast, it's impossible to spot someone miserable on a jet ski.

We had new jet skis on a boat I worked on. The owners were scheduled for a trip soon and we needed to break them in. We had a poor deckhand running up and down fjords for days breaking them in. In BC. In winter. Poor guy was a champ though.

Best job ever? /s

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#458

Post by ljw1001 » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 9:54 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #402

papito wrote: post #260

Most business in the United States is done despite of management, not because of it. The executives lie and BS through all of it, and the soldiers on the ground kill themselves to get things done.

I've lately been reading about the notion of "managerialism". The book Confronting Managerialism defines it as "What occurs when a special group, called management, ensconces itself systemically in an organization and deprives owners and employees of their decision-making power (including distribution of emoluments) and justifies that takeover on the grounds of the managing group's education and exclusive possession…

I think the problem is both broader and simpler. There's an economic term for it, but i don't recall what it is.

Basically, the whole of capitalism depends on the idea that individual incentives (for employees) can be aligned with organizational goals. Often, however, employees realize they can make more money by putting their efforts into getting a bigger slice of the pie instead of working to make the pie bigger. This is always true to some degree, and especially true for big, rich companies with low growth rates.

Outside of the economic theory, I suspect that people who make to the executive level are most likely to have engaged in this kind of behavior, since getting promoted is one of the best ways to get a bigger slice.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#459

Post by yason » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 9:58 PM UTC

The only credible way from here is to:

- remove the hack that is MCAS for the purpose of being able to piggyback on the old 737 type certificate;

- start the process of type-certifying 737-MAX as the individual design that it is without MCAS instead of trying to make it behave like the old 737 just to keep things on the cheap side;

- and offer free type certification for existing 737 pilots to obtain their certification for the un-augmented 737-MAX.

Even if they fixed MCAS bugs and added a couple of redundant angle of attack sensors the public won't trust the hack. And even if the public doesn't know to care, airlines will.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#460

Post by dang » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 10:01 PM UTC

georgeecollins wrote: post #265

papito wrote: post #260

Most business in the United States is done despite of management, not because of it. The executives lie and BS through all of it, and the soldiers on the ground kill themselves to get things done.

>> Most business in the United States is done despite of management, not because of it. You must be very unhappy in your cubicle.

Personal attacks aren't allowed and will get you banned here, so please don't post them.

Please don't post unsubstantive comments either.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html