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Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

reuters.com

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Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#421

Post by gilrain »

jandrese wrote: post #371
gilrain wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations on being able-bodied. I have arthritis and literally cannot fly anymore because I can't afford tickets with enough leg room to not be in crippling pain for the entire flight. I've had to miss important family events because of this.

Have you considered the train? The seats are roomy and well cushioned, but you will be traveling for several hours so it may or may not work out.

I'm very enthusiastic about traveling by rail, yes! I have a relative near the end of her life who has been enjoying its comfort and accessibility to make final visits to our dispersed family, all while enjoying the natural beauty of the US as a free bonus.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#422

Post by jonplackett »

jefe_ wrote: post #114

Boeing was still promising end of year FAA certification for 737 Max as recently as early December. Around that time, they had a spokesperson on CNBC who was asked directly how the outstanding steps (which indicated February at the earliest) aligned with their end of year statements and the position was essentially, 'we've been saying end of year and end of year could still happen.' When your brand is suffering a cri…

I think there were just waiting to fire him right before Christmas

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#423

Post by inferiorhuman »

CydeWeys wrote: post #32
devit wrote: post #11

Why isn't it enough to retrofit all past and future models with enough hardware redundancy and create a properly written MCAS software? Wasn't the design sound, except for the lack of hardware sensor redundancy and naively written software? Why do they need to stop production and so on?

Because these changes are going to require a new type certification, which defeats the entire point of just making a better 737 in the first place. It will no longer be nearly as appealing to airlines. They might actually be better off just axing the MAX entirely and continuing to produce the 737 NG, and then work on a clean sheet 737 replacement that doesn't suffer from all the compromises inherent in the MAX.

It will no longer be nearly as appealing to airlines.

Airlines are in a tough spot as the only competitors to the 737 are made by Airbus. Airbus is, of course, up to its ears in orders and slowly scaling up the ex-Bombardier lines.

They might actually be better off just axing the MAX entirely and continuing to produce the 737 NG.

NG production ended (not without its own issues), it's not coming back. There is nearly zero chance of the supply chain attempting to retool for the NG. If Boeing can get the 737 MAX certified it will sell.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#424

Post by CamperBob2 »

heelix wrote: post #301
sudoaza wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

have you seen anyone ever happy in a cubicle?

I'd be happy to have a cubicle again. The 'cattle feeder' style 3' (if that) hoteling desks are hot trash. The previous layer of hell is looking pretty good right now.

Overton Window successfully moved; mission accomplished.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#425

Post by AnimalMuppet »

ceejayoz wrote: post #229
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how would a union have helped with that? Qualified workers don't magically come into existence just because there's a union. The problem was the move. (True, the move was to get away from the union, but it's the move that was the problem, not the presence or absence of the union.)

They couldn't pull from their existing skilled labor pool because they didn't want the unions to get a beachhead. Having some experienced employees who already know how to make aircraft surely has some benefits when onboarding and training a new labor pool.

That shows the value of using existing skilled labor, not the value of the union. Your statement that this "helps show why the unions existed" remains completely unsupported.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#426

Post by jeffdavis »

vkou wrote: post #238
softwaredoug wrote: post #188

Former Boeing employee here[1]: I remember when the company decided to do all 401k matching in Boeing stock in 2009. It seemed like a sketchy, borderline unethical way to keep the stock price afloat. All to say I’m happy to have transitioned all my 401k years ago! [1] I worked in the defense industry. Nothing to do with planes: my company was acquired by Boeing and operated relatively independently.

I love that idea for 401k matching. All the downsides of a pension [1], combined with all the downsides of a 401k[2], with none of the upsides of either! [1] If your employer goes belly up after you retire, you are screwed. [2] Because it's fixed contribution, as opposed to fixed payout, if you lived longer than you planned, you are screwed.

401(k) is an amazing system, because it's accountable. The only use for a traditional pension is to hide the liabilities for someone else to discover later; or perhaps avoid the liabilities completely by declaring bankruptcy. 401k solves the problem by putting the assets with a third party immediately.

Maybe there's some way to have an insurance product to handle cases where people live longer than normal. That could be an improvement. But that should be handled by a fourth party.

That sounds like an annoying number of parties. But trust me -- mixing up of money for today with money for 30 years from now is just not a good system (in the private sector or government).

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#427

Post by refurb »

vkou wrote: post #238
softwaredoug wrote: post #188

Former Boeing employee here[1]: I remember when the company decided to do all 401k matching in Boeing stock in 2009. It seemed like a sketchy, borderline unethical way to keep the stock price afloat. All to say I’m happy to have transitioned all my 401k years ago! [1] I worked in the defense industry. Nothing to do with planes: my company was acquired by Boeing and operated relatively independently.

I love that idea for 401k matching. All the downsides of a pension [1], combined with all the downsides of a 401k[2], with none of the upsides of either! [1] If your employer goes belly up after you retire, you are screwed. [2] Because it's fixed contribution, as opposed to fixed payout, if you lived longer than you planned, you are screwed.

Pensions are insured by the US gov’t up to a limit, I believe around $60K per year.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#428

Post by refurb »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #267
vkou wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love that idea for 401k matching. All the downsides of a pension [1], combined with all the downsides of a 401k[2], with none of the upsides of either! [1] If your employer goes belly up after you retire, you are screwed. [2] Because it's fixed contribution, as opposed to fixed payout, if you lived longer than you planned, you are screwed.

In fairness, issue two is probably better addressed at the national level -- something like what Social Security's original intention seemed to be: a safety blanket for those who lived much longer than expected. In 1935 when SS was enacted, life expectancy was 61.7 years. benefits didn't kick in until the average person was dead by 3.3 years. If this chart is accurate: http://vis.stanford.edu/jheer/d3/pyramid/shift.h…

life expectancy in 1935 was severely dragged down by infant mortality.

What was the life expectancy at age 18? At retirement age?

If you made it past childhood, you were pretty likely to die far later than 61 years.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#429

Post by CamperBob2 »

hoorayimhelping wrote: post #234
mihaaly wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am still a bit puzzled how cheerful some people seem about a product that was unable to fulfill its purpose: Starliner getting to its intended destination. Seems like they cheer that it stayed in one piece at least. Not too promising.

> I am still a bit puzzled how cheerful some people seem about a product that was unable to fulfill its purpose: Starliner getting to its intended destination. Calling a space capsule a product and treating it like some kind of tech product launch and framing it's success that way is weird. It's a spacecraft and the mission was meant to test its capabilities and get data about it during an actual orbital flight, then…

We launched the ISS over 20 years ago. If you look 20 years down the road from Kitty Hawk, we had already built tens of thousands of manned aircraft and fought a world war with them at that point in time.

Apparently, 20 years of progress and "promise" ain't what it used to be.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#430

Post by GauntletWizard »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #384
papito wrote: post #260

Most business in the United States is done despite of management, not because of it. The executives lie and BS through all of it, and the soldiers on the ground kill themselves to get things done.

> The executives lie and BS through all of it, and the soldiers on the ground kill themselves to get things done. Why isn't this taught in public school?

Because Public School is run managerially. Public School Principals have long been managers not educators, and quite frankly most teachers have the same mindset.
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