Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens • Hacker News Board

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#371

Post by jandrese » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

gilrain wrote: post #339

doublement wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...single-aisle monoculture makes flying miserable. What is it that people expect when they say flying is miserable? I expect safety, which is why I'll never get on a 737 MAX. Other than that, I just put sandwiches and snacks in my pocket, fill my water bottle, and in X hours I'm thousands of miles away. Air travel is actually pretty amazing.

Congratulations on being able-bodied. I have arthritis and literally cannot fly anymore because I can't afford tickets with enough leg room to not be in crippling pain for the entire flight. I've had to miss important family events because of this.

Have you considered the train? The seats are roomy and well cushioned, but you will be traveling for several hours so it may or may not work out.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#372

Post by munk-a » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

ativzzz wrote: post #336

asperous wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a programmer who got an MBA, I can tell you that in my cohort there were absolutely extremely smart super stars who put the time into everything they do and have the talent to make good decisions and have the empathy to be good managers. There were also people who tried their best but their judgement was clearly lacking. My cohort has Civil Engineers, Materials engineers, Physicians, Finance, Accountants.. and als…

The current hacker news meme is that bad management of any kind is due to MBAs, where in reality a bad manager is a bad manager and an MBA has nothing to do with it.

I don't agree - the current meme is that people who have MBAs wave them in the air as proof that their decisions are infallible... There are a lot of smart people with MBAs out there, but their intelligence and experience isn't solely owed to acquiring an MBA.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

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Post by AdrianB1 » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #221

fooster wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect to be able to sit in my seat without having my knees crushed? How about that for a start?

Then you could purchase a different fare class. The market has largely spoken already- people prefer lower fares over comfortable seats.

The prices does not scale up too well for the travelers, but for the airlines. The extra that you get does not match the huge jump in price.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

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Post by rland » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

panarky wrote: post #95

solatic wrote: post #4

After both The Economist[1] and The New York Times [2] publicly undermined faith in Dennis Muilenberg. No question at this point that he needed to be replaced. The question is - why didn't the board act sooner? [1] https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/12/18/boeings-misplac... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/22/business/boeing-dennis-mu...

The NYT story in particular was hard-hitting and well sourced. Gotta wonder if these stories influenced the board to act now. It's a bad look, because Boeing is consistently way too late to recognize what is obvious to those of us watching from home. I continue to be astounded that our most senior leaders will not act in the long-term best interest of the organizations they lead. It's been 37 years since the Tylenol…

There are many counter-examples though. BP, Volkswagen, Wells Fargo, Equifax, etc. All doing just fine.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

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Post by AdrianB1 » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

rosybox wrote: post #327

fooster wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect to be able to sit in my seat without having my knees crushed? How about that for a start?

I'm 6'2" and my knees used to be painfully squeezed into seats and everything was incredibly uncomfortable on flights. At the time I weighed 275lb. I've since lost weight and I was surprised how much more comfortable flying is. You wouldn't think being obese would impact knees not having enough space, but my ass shrank in multiple directions and I have about four to five inches of free space now between the seat in f…

There is no normal height.

https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2016/01/16/when-us-air-...

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#376

Post by ddoolin » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:44 PM UTC

heelix wrote: post #328

lokedhs wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I don't know. It's hard to compare for the US domestic flights, since you have to decide on comparable routes. That said, flights throughout Asia at distances similar to US domestic flights tend to be reasonably cheap. I decided to make a comparison: Fly Singapore Airlines from Singapore to Hong Kong. This will cost you 225 USD in economy. A domestic US flight of the same distance would be San Francisco…

The routes and dates really matter. I can fly from MSP to TPA (about 2.1k, about the same) for $28 USD. Now I wont argue Frontier airline is the same quality as Delta or some of the other majors... but airfare prices are really fungible.

I fly Frontier very regularly by quality choice and not by price. The fares are great, but the only other people flying the routes are United (awful awful) and Southwest (great but also pricey). More generally, I am not impressed by any U.S. major, discounting Southwest if they are considered. United, AA, and Delta (least) are pretty abysmal in their quality.

It's probably important to be specific when I say "quality." By that I'm referring to ease of purchase, fair baggage prices, web/app UX, on/off-flight customer service including pilot communication with passengers, and even landings (as a pilot, I am absolutely judging beyond "did we get to the ground safely or not"). Price and seating are secondary for me, although I certainly understand why they are list-toppers for others.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

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Post by yardie » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:45 PM UTC

cattlemansgold wrote: post #232

jefe_ wrote: post #114

Boeing was still promising end of year FAA certification for 737 Max as recently as early December. Around that time, they had a spokesperson on CNBC who was asked directly how the outstanding steps (which indicated February at the earliest) aligned with their end of year statements and the position was essentially, 'we've been saying end of year and end of year could still happen.' When your brand is suffering a cri…

The Starliner mission was a test. You wouldn't have 100% confidence that a test would be executed flawlessly. The purpose of the test is to find flaws in the system, and that's exactly what they did.

You're thinking of test, as in pilot. Everyone else is thinking of test, as in drive. I mean there are dramatically different expectations of what you, Boeing, and the public is supposed to believe what happened.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#378

Post by FrojoS » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:47 PM UTC

sbuttgereit wrote: post #247

cattlemansgold wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Starliner mission was a test. You wouldn't have 100% confidence that a test would be executed flawlessly. The purpose of the test is to find flaws in the system, and that's exactly what they did.

I"m not completely sure that's the case (and to be fair, I've not been following Starliner closely, so could well be wrong). There are tests to prove out ideas during the course of development, but then there are tests which would perhaps be more accurately called "demonstrations"; where you're not trying to find flaws and refine your designs, but rather prove that you're [insert thing-name you're proving here] actua…

You are correct. The SpaceX version of this exact same test was literally called „Demo-1“. Ironically Boeing called it „Boeing Orbital Flight Test“.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Orbital_Flight_Test

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#379

Post by Xixi » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:49 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #348

Xixi wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by bigger? The A320 has a cabin width of 395cm vs 380cm for the 737, so it is more spacious.

The 737 is larger but has less usable space. A 737-800 is 39.6m long to the 320neo’s 38.6, they have the same wingspan, the 320neo seats up to 195 versus 189 for the 737. The 320 also has significantly more range (6500km to 5500) and needs a bit less runway (1950m to 2300).

195 for the A320 vs 189 for the 737-800 are the exit limits. It is what the plane is certified for, and is mostly a function of the size and number of doors. It has little to do with typical or comparable seating configurations. At similar density/comfort level a 737-800 seats more than an A320.

The 737 MAX 200 is a modified 737 MAX 8 with an extra pair of exit doors so that it can seat up to 200 passengers. It will be used by Ryanair. Assuming the 737 MAX does fly again of course.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#380

Post by karthikb » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:50 PM UTC

rightbyte wrote: post #251

discretelious wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is not that this plane kills people— although it is shocking that this plane does kill people. The issue is that a culture of self-interested mismanagement from factory floors up to our highest political offices has led the global economy to depend on the success of this plane which kills people. Even if somehow by chance they manage to make this plane kill fewer people in the future, there will be no reaso…

Does the global economy really need passenger planes? Tourism economies, sure, but I would guess most of the economy is dependent on trains, trucks and ships?

Yes. Take the SF Bay Area. It would be a lot harder to convince smart engineers from around the world to move here if they had to take a ship whenever they wanted to go visit their parents and relatives back home.

People certainly immigrated before the airplane, but in general those were individuals without many options at home. Skilled immigration really took off during the Jet Age.