A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52 • Hacker News Board

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#61

Post by crisdux » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:24 PM UTC

namirez wrote: post #44

forgotmylogin2 wrote: post #22

The author either has a fundamental misunderstanding of the criticisms against "safe spaces" or he's deliberately mischaracterizing them to earn the favor of his classmates. > What she meant by “safe space” was that she was happy to be in an environment where difficult subjects can be discussed openly, without the risk of disrespect or harsh judgement. If that's actually how safe spaces were implemented in practice,…

> * The primary criticism against safe spaces is that they are an excuse to censor dissenting opinions. A common example is that people opposed to sex-reassignment surgery are not allowed into discussions about transgenderism* What a strange example! What is the "dissenting opinion" about sex-reassignment surgery and transgenderism? Is it not for individuals to decided? Why would this even be an issue in the public s…

We are off topic but I'd like to answer your question.

It's increasingly become an issue in the public space because local governments are increasingly getting involved with this issue. Dissidents may believe that governmental power is being misused to further a harmful ideology and to push unproven and ill-advised treatments on children.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#62

Post by SolaceQuantum » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:24 PM UTC

DamnYuppie wrote: post #57

namirez wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * The primary criticism against safe spaces is that they are an excuse to censor dissenting opinions. A common example is that people opposed to sex-reassignment surgery are not allowed into discussions about transgenderism* What a strange example! What is the "dissenting opinion" about sex-reassignment surgery and transgenderism? Is it not for individuals to decided? Why would this even be an issue in the public s…

For myself I am not against the procedure. I am against allowing children to do so without the consent of their parent. We don't let children drink, drive, or hold employment until certain ages. Yet is is completely fine for them to have life altering changes done to their bodies at very young ages.

"For myself I am not against the procedure. I am against allowing children to do so without the consent of their parent. We don't let children drink, drive, or hold employment until certain ages. Yet is is completely fine for them to have life altering changes done to their bodies at very young ages."

Can you cite numbers on where and how often this is occurring?

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#63

Post by hellomyguys » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

ramblerman wrote: post #52

abjKT26nO8 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A common example is that people opposed to sex-reassignment surgery are not allowed into discussions about trangenderism [sic!] because their opinions are considered "disrespectful" or even "violent" to transgender people. What does "being opposed to sex-reassignment surgery" even mean? I see two options: 1. Being opposed to others having the possibility of undergoing such a surgery. 2. Being opposed to undergoing…

> In the first case, I do believe it's disrespectful of the freedom to do with one's body as one pleases You aren’t allowed to harm yourself. You could argue that you should but under current laws we protect people from that, mostly. Also doctors have to perform these surgeries in which case their oath would mandate we are certain this procedure isn’t causing harm. And finally and perhaps most importantly. These surg…

I agree, we should put more effort into banning circumcision.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#64

Post by tptacek » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:26 PM UTC

crisdux wrote: post #61

namirez wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * The primary criticism against safe spaces is that they are an excuse to censor dissenting opinions. A common example is that people opposed to sex-reassignment surgery are not allowed into discussions about transgenderism* What a strange example! What is the "dissenting opinion" about sex-reassignment surgery and transgenderism? Is it not for individuals to decided? Why would this even be an issue in the public s…

We are off topic but I'd like to answer your question. It's increasingly become an issue in the public space because local governments are increasingly getting involved with this issue. Dissidents may believe that governmental power is being misused to further a harmful ideology and to push unproven and ill-advised treatments on children.

This is about as charitable an interpretation as the one suggesting marriage equality would be a harbinger of bestiality. You can always connect some set of dots from a policy you don't like to some lurid, horrible outcome; there's a well-known rhetorical fallacy that captures this directly.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#65

Post by SolaceQuantum » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:27 PM UTC

TravHatesMe wrote: post #49

shkkmo wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sure safe spaces are implemented in a variety of ways and with varying levels of competence. I would point out that "being opposed to sex-reassignment surgery" is not so much an opinion as it is an ideology. I suspect many safe spaces would be far more open to including people who subscribe to that ideology if those people entered those discussions with a willingness to learn, a desire to honestly explore the pr…

> a desire to honestly explore the pros and cons of that surgery What if these pros and cons were subjective, and someone decided that in the end, the cons outweighed the pros? Would you cast them as an evil person and exile them from your safe space? Would you accept their opinion, respectfully disagree, and move on? It seems that you must either abide by the ideology, censor yourself, or be exiled and called a nazi…

"Personally I have had maybe one or two opportunities to interact with a transgender person because they make up a tiny percentage of the population."

That's super interesting to me, because in my experience in any social group I participate in greater than, say, 50 or 100(anything from gamer rooms to code-a-thons), chances are good that at least one person will not be cis. I may not know they aren't cis, but in spaces that ask for preferred pronouns, it's quite common for they/them to be taken up as an accepted pronoun.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#66

Post by luckydata » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:29 PM UTC

forgotmylogin2 wrote: post #22

The author either has a fundamental misunderstanding of the criticisms against "safe spaces" or he's deliberately mischaracterizing them to earn the favor of his classmates. > What she meant by “safe space” was that she was happy to be in an environment where difficult subjects can be discussed openly, without the risk of disrespect or harsh judgement. If that's actually how safe spaces were implemented in practice,…

Put this way, it really makes me think you don't like safe spaces because they hinder your ability to hurt transgender people.

It always seem that the only people complaining about systems designed to respect others is the people that are doing the dis-respecting, haven't seen much proof of the contrary so far.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#67

Post by ganzuul » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:35 PM UTC

namirez wrote: post #44

forgotmylogin2 wrote: post #22

The author either has a fundamental misunderstanding of the criticisms against "safe spaces" or he's deliberately mischaracterizing them to earn the favor of his classmates. > What she meant by “safe space” was that she was happy to be in an environment where difficult subjects can be discussed openly, without the risk of disrespect or harsh judgement. If that's actually how safe spaces were implemented in practice,…

> * The primary criticism against safe spaces is that they are an excuse to censor dissenting opinions. A common example is that people opposed to sex-reassignment surgery are not allowed into discussions about transgenderism* What a strange example! What is the "dissenting opinion" about sex-reassignment surgery and transgenderism? Is it not for individuals to decided? Why would this even be an issue in the public s…

I think some people have some kind of misfunctional sympathetic link with what they see, so that they feel about other people's bodies like they do about their own. Others seem to rely so heavily on heuristics in their interactions with other people that they are not able to deal with outliers from their perceived norm. Others yet have not realized their mental image of another person is not an actual being, but a reflection of themselves created by their mirror neurons where the blanks are filled in based on past experience.

I suppose the study of the humanities is supposed to lead us out of this dark and terrifying labyrinth of misconceptions.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#68

Post by tgflynn » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

sosborn wrote: post #58

ramblerman wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the first case, I do believe it's disrespectful of the freedom to do with one's body as one pleases You aren’t allowed to harm yourself. You could argue that you should but under current laws we protect people from that, mostly. Also doctors have to perform these surgeries in which case their oath would mandate we are certain this procedure isn’t causing harm. And finally and perhaps most importantly. These surg…

> You aren’t allowed to harm yourself. You could argue that you should but under current laws we protect people from that, mostly. There is a law against committing suicide, but there aren't any laws about harming yourself. If there were, sugar intake would be regulated and alcohol would be banned. You also don't get arrested if you intentionally cut yourself. > their oath would mandate we are certain this procedure…

> There is a law against committing suicide

The vast majority of Western countries (at least) no longer have laws against committing suicide.

What they do have is laws that allow the basic rights of people who are considered "a danger to themselves", such as the right to refuse treatment, to be set aside. In my view such laws, unless limited to people with specifically diagnosable and treatable conditions, are an unwarranted invasion of government into an individual's private affairs.

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#69

Post by eganist » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

forgotmylogin2 wrote: post #22

The author either has a fundamental misunderstanding of the criticisms against "safe spaces" or he's deliberately mischaracterizing them to earn the favor of his classmates. > What she meant by “safe space” was that she was happy to be in an environment where difficult subjects can be discussed openly, without the risk of disrespect or harsh judgement. If that's actually how safe spaces were implemented in practice,…

> A common example

Do you have a source for why this specific example is common?

Re: A Navy Seal's Semester at Yale, at Age 52

#70

Post by hellomyguys » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

luckydata wrote: post #66

forgotmylogin2 wrote: post #22

The author either has a fundamental misunderstanding of the criticisms against "safe spaces" or he's deliberately mischaracterizing them to earn the favor of his classmates. > What she meant by “safe space” was that she was happy to be in an environment where difficult subjects can be discussed openly, without the risk of disrespect or harsh judgement. If that's actually how safe spaces were implemented in practice,…

Put this way, it really makes me think you don't like safe spaces because they hinder your ability to hurt transgender people. It always seem that the only people complaining about systems designed to respect others is the people that are doing the dis-respecting, haven't seen much proof of the contrary so far.

Safe spaces is a phrase people use when they don't want to call it these environments for what they actually are, which are spaces for vulnerable members of society to have a place to discuss issues that are relevant to them, without having the already dominant voices in society interjecting, usually in a disrespectful manner.