How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food • Hacker News Board

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#51

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

squish78 wrote: post #45

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced that there's a coherent concept of real food. Most real food advocates I've seen are happy to eat, say, tofu. They'll admit that technically it's processed, in the sense that it's industrially manufactured by pulverizing soybeans beyond recognition then adding chemicals to the big holding vats. But people say it's not highly processed, or it hasn't lost the natural essence of soy, or whatever. I jus…

It's OK if there's not a universal definition of every concept. Some things in life are culturally subjective - especially cuisine. However, I think an intelligent person can look at string cheese and say that's fake food. I've started realizing that there is very little space for nuance and subjectivity in discussing things on HN

String cheese is another great example. Most people would identify it as a clear example of "fake food", but it's literally just mozzarella stretched in a particular way.

I have no objection to nuance and subjectivity. There's nothing wrong with someone saying "I like fresh salads and fish and tofu, but string cheese and Big Macs aren't for me". Certainly I wouldn't say that you must eat string cheese unless you have an ironclad reason to avoid it. What I object to (and what I think HN is particularly sensitive to) is trying to sneak personal preferences under the guise of loaded terms like "real food".

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#52

Post by sadproton » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:15 PM UTC

squish78 wrote: post #45

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced that there's a coherent concept of real food. Most real food advocates I've seen are happy to eat, say, tofu. They'll admit that technically it's processed, in the sense that it's industrially manufactured by pulverizing soybeans beyond recognition then adding chemicals to the big holding vats. But people say it's not highly processed, or it hasn't lost the natural essence of soy, or whatever. I jus…

It's OK if there's not a universal definition of every concept. Some things in life are culturally subjective - especially cuisine. However, I think an intelligent person can look at string cheese and say that's fake food. I've started realizing that there is very little space for nuance and subjectivity in discussing things on HN

If you heat and then stretch mozzarella cheese, you get string cheese. Is it the heat that turns real food into fake food or the stretching?

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#53

Post by peter_retief » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

notthatdude wrote: post #20

peter_retief wrote: post #15

For the last 5 years we have made our own lard and use as little processed oil as possible. Our health has improved, we have lost weight and generally been very healthy. We also add very little sugar to our diet. Processed foods are generally bad for health, its been quite difficult to find food that is free of these harmful oils

Oils, be it rapeseed/canola, olive, sunflower, basically any seed-oils are just about the same level of processed as homemade lard.

I am sharing my experience of cutting out processed oils, it should be taken as anecdotal.

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#54

Post by squish78 » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:20 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #51

squish78 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's OK if there's not a universal definition of every concept. Some things in life are culturally subjective - especially cuisine. However, I think an intelligent person can look at string cheese and say that's fake food. I've started realizing that there is very little space for nuance and subjectivity in discussing things on HN

String cheese is another great example. Most people would identify it as a clear example of "fake food", but it's literally just mozzarella stretched in a particular way. I have no objection to nuance and subjectivity. There's nothing wrong with someone saying "I like fresh salads and fish and tofu, but string cheese and Big Macs aren't for me". Certainly I wouldn't say that you must eat string cheese unless you have…

Then I guess I'm guilty sneaking my personal preferences. I wanted to have a conversation about the industrial food supply and failed to ask the right questions

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#55

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:25 PM UTC

squish78 wrote: post #45

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not convinced that there's a coherent concept of real food. Most real food advocates I've seen are happy to eat, say, tofu. They'll admit that technically it's processed, in the sense that it's industrially manufactured by pulverizing soybeans beyond recognition then adding chemicals to the big holding vats. But people say it's not highly processed, or it hasn't lost the natural essence of soy, or whatever. I jus…

It's OK if there's not a universal definition of every concept. Some things in life are culturally subjective - especially cuisine. However, I think an intelligent person can look at string cheese and say that's fake food. I've started realizing that there is very little space for nuance and subjectivity in discussing things on HN

Anything frozen & prepared seems to be taboo -- like a frozen pizza. But frozen peas and berries are fair game. Everything else seems to come down to branding.

I've seen premade refrigerated pizza fly off the shelf. I've seen drinks with all kinds of highly processed ingredients sell like hotcakes. I've seen condiments with a list of ingredients as long as a phone book purchase by plenty of people that eat only "real food".

Protein powders and supplements intrigue me to no end. These are some of the most processed and unregulated things sold on shelves. But "real food" advocates literally eat them up.

One of my friends is making millions catering to this group. I've been trying to figure out how these shoppers think. To me, it doesn't seem like there's much in common. It seems to be mostly branding.

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#56

Post by peter_retief » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:25 PM UTC

Zarel wrote: post #47

peter_retief wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.ok.org/kosherspirit/winter-2016/what-is-vegetable... this is a random site I googled. Cold pressed olive oil is a relatively safe method is an exception

I'm also confused. That link does not mention hydrogenation at all.

Apologies I had the article in my mind when I posted. However the chemical used in manufacturing seed oils are quite extreme. I did use the wrong term

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#57

Post by triceratops » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:30 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #39

squish78 wrote: post #8

The agro-industrial complex in general convinced Americans to buy trademark branded products instead of real food

I'm not convinced that there's a coherent concept of real food. Most real food advocates I've seen are happy to eat, say, tofu. They'll admit that technically it's processed, in the sense that it's industrially manufactured by pulverizing soybeans beyond recognition then adding chemicals to the big holding vats. But people say it's not highly processed, or it hasn't lost the natural essence of soy, or whatever. I jus…

Tofu is processed but also incredibly ancient[1]. If it was bad for us, we'd probably have found out about it by now. Ditto for seitan[2], tempeh[3], various pickles and other types of preserved foods, and cheeses. "Traditionally" processed foods get a pass on the "real" food scale because they've (mostly, apart from smoked and cured meats and fish) passed the "is it harmful?" test.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tofu#History

2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat_gluten_(food)

3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempeh#History

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#58

Post by notthatdude » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:35 PM UTC

peter_retief wrote: post #56

Zarel wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also confused. That link does not mention hydrogenation at all.

Apologies I had the article in my mind when I posted. However the chemical used in manufacturing seed oils are quite extreme. I did use the wrong term

If you’re referring to hexane being the extreme chemical, there is 0% chance of any amount of hexane remaining in the final product. Everything else they mention, diatomaceous earth, clay, phosphoric acid, are all edible and pose no health risks.

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#59

Post by triceratops » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #22

squish78 wrote: post #8

The agro-industrial complex in general convinced Americans to buy trademark branded products instead of real food

What is “real food?” Are sausages, for example, “real food?”

Yes. They're also bad for you if eaten regularly. Not all "real food" is healthy. Not all "fake food" (whatever that means) is unhealthy. They're orthogonal concepts.

IMO any processed food that hasn't been around for a couple of generations should be treated with some suspicion.

If you want to define "processing" a loosey-goosey definition might be "anything that can't be done in the average kitchen using ingredients commonly found at a grocery store". By this definition, maybe breakfast cereals aren't processed - you could make Grape Nuts in your kitchen if you were sufficiently determined and masochistic. But it's a decent heuristic otherwise.

Re: How Crisco Made Americans Believers in Industrial Food

#60

Post by triceratops » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #55

squish78 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's OK if there's not a universal definition of every concept. Some things in life are culturally subjective - especially cuisine. However, I think an intelligent person can look at string cheese and say that's fake food. I've started realizing that there is very little space for nuance and subjectivity in discussing things on HN

Anything frozen & prepared seems to be taboo -- like a frozen pizza. But frozen peas and berries are fair game. Everything else seems to come down to branding. I've seen premade refrigerated pizza fly off the shelf. I've seen drinks with all kinds of highly processed ingredients sell like hotcakes. I've seen condiments with a list of ingredients as long as a phone book purchase by plenty of people that eat only "real…

> Anything frozen & prepared seems to be taboo -- like a frozen pizza

> I've seen premade refrigerated pizza fly off the shelf.

To be fair most frozen pizza is terrible - pre-baked bread that you're reheating, little better than frozen cheese toast. Whereas premade pizzas tend to be freshly made and you're baking the dough. So they taste a lot better.