Downsides to working at a tech giant • Hacker News Board

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#121

Post by friendlybus » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

garry wrote: post #104

friendlybus wrote: post #83

Why did he value Microsoft over Their? There is something in his character that held in higher regard one decision over the other, there's no exploration of what caused the conflict in the first instance and a likelihood it will happen again. What should he have done with himself at that point and all future similar points where he has opportunity again? This post seems to be more about signalling than lessons learne…

I'll try to make a longer post about this. It's hard to get it right in 5 minutes of video.

Seems like a good topic to talk on, soothing the burn on missed opportunity, perceived or otherwise.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#122

Post by senordevnyc » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:46 PM UTC

opportune wrote: post #94

alecbenzer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that eventually as more and more people realize how much more they could make at big tech (IME a lot of people just straight up don't know, esp. when a lot of the comp comes as equity grants), startups will have to start paying more/offering bigger slices of equity. But seems we're not there yet. I also wonder how much of this is driven by software engineers who couldn't (or, probably more realistically, don't…

The other big thing messing up startup comp right now are super-high valuations for mid stage companies. When you’re getting options based off an inflated evaluation your upside is low, and the probability your options become worth $0 even if the startup does moderately well (eg if it raises a round at $4b right before you start and goes public for $3b). Doesn’t matter how many options you got, they were pegged to an…

Agreed. People are madly in love with working at companies like Stripe and Airbnb right now, but I'm not convinced the risk is worth it. They're giving out equity as if it's liquid, but it's not. So if I can get $200k per year in equity from Stripe or $200k per year in equity from Google, why exactly would I choose Stripe or Airbnb? Just in the hopes that the $200k will end up worth $400k or $800k? I mean, maybe it will, but that feels pretty speculative. Put another way, if you already worked at Google and had the opportunity to invest cash into those companies, would you put all your equity comp in Stripe or Airbnb?

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#123

Post by alecbenzer » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:46 PM UTC

catalystic wrote: post #70

I feel a lot of the folks here are focusing on the wrong parts here. The $200M loss was a cheap way of getting user attention, but hey it worked! The core of what he was trying to convey was the sooner you get to understand real user / customer problems the better off you'll be in life as an entrepreneur. He stayed away from this in his early days as he opted for stability and that he seems to regret.

> I feel a lot of the folks here are focusing on the wrong parts here. The $200M loss was a cheap way of getting user attention, but hey it worked!

It "worked" in that that it got people's attention but distracted from the post's main message.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#124

Post by gregd » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

senordevnyc wrote: post #21

This is such a weird post. Big fan of Garry, but I don't agree with most of this. 1. Just because it turned out that you would have made $200mm doesn't make it a mistake. If anything, that outsized return proves just how rare this kind of outcome is. If you look at the YC startups graduating every year, maybe 1 will ever generate $20mm for an early employee, let alone $200mm. Joining a new startup for that kind of ou…

What I got out of the post is that the value you bring to a company, doesn't at all align with what you're actually paid, which is typical of our society.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#125

Post by garry » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #87

jerkstate wrote: post #38

This is more of a humble brag than useful advice

It's also self-serving. There simply doesn't exist $200M for every software engineer out of college. But if this guy, a venture capitalist, can get a thousand more people to think they'll win the lottery, invests in all of them, and 999 go bust, he'll still make money on the one startup that succeeds by being in the right place at the right time.

I started learning about startups only after I started reading Hacker News in 2006. I was an engineer for most of my career up until then. Reading Paul Graham's essays changed my life, and it changed the life of thousands of people I've met now known for over 10 years, as an alum, a partner at Y Combinator and now an investor.

Guilty, it is self-serving. It's my business. But I also know from direct experience people who can make software are capable of building billions of dollars worth of value.

I funded more than 200 companies worth over $36B now.

And I started just like you, here, reading Hacker News.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#126

Post by thecleaner » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

Tempest1981 wrote: post #24

thecleaner wrote: post #12

This vlog is more of a cheap advertisement for the "oh work for a startup it's great" nonsense school. I don't really understand why I would work in an environment where the pay is shit and the issued stocks can be re-classified or diluted or just taken away by lay-offs. Makes no sense.

There is a medium-high probability of what you mentioned. But for many, it's about having a (tiny) shot at changing the world. It can be a thrill. You are also a bigger fish in a small pond - more responsibility, no bureaucracy. And usually the pay is enough to live modestly on.

> But for many, it's about having a (tiny) shot at changing the world. It can be a thrill.

Honestly this seems like Silicon Valley bait for getting people for work in an abusive mismanaged environment. And I hope most people stopped drinking the Kool Aid.

> You are also a bigger fish in a small pond - more responsibility, no bureaucracy

This I can understand, I mean if you are talented enough that you don't want to jump through corporate hoops, then it makes sense. But I would only do it for a company that has competitors. Atleast that way if you do well and get mistreated (because some founder assumes that employees are sheep), then you can always take your talent to a competitor. Better if you have the ability to take others with you.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#127

Post by garry » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

senordevnyc wrote: post #112

garry wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the note! I appreciate the feedback. These things are crazy rare. I didn't do a good job of explaining then how weird this experience was. In the moment it felt like any other startup. Peter was great and well known but not outrageously famous the way he is today. I also didn't do a good job of doing an intro on this idea that tech startups are taking over all of the economy. There are some things that I j…

Yeah, I hope none of the criticism was too harsh. I'm a big fan, we've actually met in person, and I almost got into YC while you were a partner. Oh well :) Agreed on most of your points here, especially about software eating the world. There's a good post here, just not sure this is it yet!

Just trying to get better. Not too harsh at all. Thanks again.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#128

Post by justicezyx » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

Once a while a celebrity showcasing their true intellectual capability, and everyone found that they owe their success mostly to luck more than anything else...

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#129

Post by ticmasta » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

garry wrote: post #77

nostromo wrote: post #10

Not buying Apple Stock in 1999 cost me $200M too. Not to mention what not picking those winning lottery numbers cost me...

Did you get offered 1% of Apple? I mean, getting offered equity at the start of a thing is what I was trying to talk about.

but everybody at a startup gets offered equity and almost all of it ends up being garbage, so maybe you made a poor assessment of the startup & founder but it seems a silly thing to thinking about and a dangerous one from which to draw lessons or advice.

I think it's great to learn from your previous decisions but this one seems (1) emotionally dangerous, (2) logically faulty and (3) largely selected for the headline.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#130

Post by dang » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:50 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #118

dang wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having finished the article, I was just coming back here to edit my comment, because I described it inaccurately. The article isn't only about taking the opportunities that come your way; it's more specific. It's about owning more of the value that you create and having more creative autonomy in your work. Some people are going to respond positively to that message, others not, for various reasons, but it obviously h…

Then the author did a disservice to us all by the clickbait framing of his decision.

I see what you mean and yes we should probably change the title (edit: done now). But that doesn't excuse breaking the site guidelines by adding more provocation of one's own. The intended spirit of HN is the opposite: to respond to provocation by getting more thoughtful, not less.

When people respond to provocation or negativity with provocation and negativity of their own, we get a Tacoma Narrows Bridge situation. Most of the internet is doing that every day, so there are many places to enjoy that energy. Here we're trying for something different, and each user who comments is responsible for that. Not that that's easy!

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html