Downsides to working at a tech giant • Hacker News Board

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#111

Post by hellomyguys » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

cmdshiftf4 wrote: post #15

How many countless others have invested years of their lives, in exchange for equity and comparatively low pay, in promising-sounding startups only to see those companies fail? Should they be retroactively counting the money they could have had if they'd went to a more stable firm and had the same years of pay increases, bonuses, RSUs, etc. as a loss? This is hollow clickbait, but the author is clearly intelligent en…

> How many countless others have invested years of their lives, in exchange for equity and comparatively low pay, in promising-sounding startups only to see those companies fail?

My intuition leads me to believe its more than the cumulation of these "I could have made $N" stories :)

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#112

Post by senordevnyc » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

garry wrote: post #100

senordevnyc wrote: post #21

This is such a weird post. Big fan of Garry, but I don't agree with most of this. 1. Just because it turned out that you would have made $200mm doesn't make it a mistake. If anything, that outsized return proves just how rare this kind of outcome is. If you look at the YC startups graduating every year, maybe 1 will ever generate $20mm for an early employee, let alone $200mm. Joining a new startup for that kind of ou…

Thanks for the note! I appreciate the feedback. These things are crazy rare. I didn't do a good job of explaining then how weird this experience was. In the moment it felt like any other startup. Peter was great and well known but not outrageously famous the way he is today. I also didn't do a good job of doing an intro on this idea that tech startups are taking over all of the economy. There are some things that I j…

Yeah, I hope none of the criticism was too harsh. I'm a big fan, we've actually met in person, and I almost got into YC while you were a partner. Oh well :)

Agreed on most of your points here, especially about software eating the world. There's a good post here, just not sure this is it yet!

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#113

Post by alecbenzer » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

> The real reason you should consider working at a startup or starting your own: It's not the money

I think this is correct, but makes the post's title seem really click-baity. I think expected financial upside is exactly where Big Tech unequivocally wins over startups (esp. joining and not founding), so it seems weird to frame the post around money.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#114

Post by nytesky » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

ng12 wrote: post #25

evmar wrote: post #9

His "cost me $200m" is of a $20b company, so by the math he's suggesting he would've had 1% of the company after it went through all the dilutions on its path to $20b. So yeah, if you have a chance to get nearly a cofounder's amount of equity in a company that will end up 20x a unicorn (which got that name because of how rare they are), then definitely go for it.

Not to mention it's 1% of a $20b company that has yet to go public and seems intent on staying private.

Since Plantir is not going private for while, would his $200M be at all liquid in any way?

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#115

Post by jamestimmins » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

cryptica wrote: post #62

>> He asked, "How much a year do you make at Microsoft?" >> It was $72,000 a year, really the lowest of the low coming right out of college. He got out his checkbook and wrote me that check. >> "Cash this check, quit your job. This is a zero risk opportunity for you." >> I said, "Thank you very much, Mr. Thiel, but I might get promoted to Level 60 next year." Wow. This is probably the most impressive combination of a…

I don't think this is fair. In part, because valuations are so high today, but 2004 was totally different. This was shortly after the bubble burst. An enormous number of people went to interesting startups and lost their jobs/equity when the companies went under. Nowadays, startups have been de-risked quite a bit and there's obviously a lot of money if you operate well, but at the time, a career in Microsoft probably seemed extremely rational.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#116

Post by garry » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:42 PM UTC

stiray wrote: post #23

I really hate speeches like that. They are always told by one permile (or even less) of people that succeeded. The voice of all those that have lost are never heard. Same as blockchains, there are a few very loud people explaining how easy is to get rich, while those who gave them their money are rarely heard. I would laugh if it wouldnt be sad. An anecdote (just a detail, I am developer for almost 30 years, I know t…

Maybe more poker than a lottery. A lot of luck, but there's still a little bit of skill in there.

I appreciate the feedback though. I know this is just one voice of many, but it's also what I experienced. I think it's up to the viewer to decide if my experience is applicable.

I think Paul Buchheit said it best: Advice is merely n=1 experience.

This was my n=1.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#117

Post by thrownaway954 » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:43 PM UTC

The "could of", "would of", "should of" game... Ah.... how I love to play thee.

But wait... let's go further and play the "what if" game as well!!! What if... you took the job and moved out to Palo Alto only to trip walking up the stairs on your first day of work to break your spine and be confined to a wheel chair the rest of your life???

Point being... life turns out the way it does for a reason and you never know what events will unfold or are avoided cause of the decisions you choose. Be happy that you are alive and have what you have. Life isn't always about getting or having more things.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#118

Post by Apocryphon » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:43 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #107

geofft wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with this. Why was Thiel willing to cut him a check - would he have done so for any software engineer straight out of college? Did he technically interview Tan? If the original comment is revised from "Be buddies with Peter Thiel" to "Be in the set of should take the Microsoft job and hold out for promo - and I think you're shallowly dismissing this comment.

Having finished the article, I was just coming back here to edit my comment, because I described it inaccurately. The article isn't only about taking the opportunities that come your way; it's more specific. It's about owning more of the value that you create and having more creative autonomy in your work. Some people are going to respond positively to that message, others not, for various reasons, but it obviously h…

Then the author did a disservice to us all by the clickbait framing of his decision.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#119

Post by garry » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:43 PM UTC

evmar wrote: post #9

His "cost me $200m" is of a $20b company, so by the math he's suggesting he would've had 1% of the company after it went through all the dilutions on its path to $20b. So yeah, if you have a chance to get nearly a cofounder's amount of equity in a company that will end up 20x a unicorn (which got that name because of how rare they are), then definitely go for it.

If you spend enough time in tech, you meet a lot of people who have this kind of story. It's ridiculous, but not that rare.

Re: Downsides to working at a tech giant

#120

Post by garry » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

zadkey wrote: post #68

It seems like he has found the problem with companies. "Even though these companies pay a lot of money, in real terms, what software is doing in society is creating a lot more value than what they pay you. Google's pure profit per employee is actually $1.6 million per year, after all costs." "If you're in the engineering, product, design, marketing, sort of the builder's side of that organization, you've got to know…

This is a problem, no doubt.