Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens • Hacker News Board

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#221

Post by leesalminen » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:28 PM UTC

fooster wrote: post #200

doublement wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...single-aisle monoculture makes flying miserable. What is it that people expect when they say flying is miserable? I expect safety, which is why I'll never get on a 737 MAX. Other than that, I just put sandwiches and snacks in my pocket, fill my water bottle, and in X hours I'm thousands of miles away. Air travel is actually pretty amazing.

I expect to be able to sit in my seat without having my knees crushed? How about that for a start?

Then you could purchase a different fare class. The market has largely spoken already- people prefer lower fares over comfortable seats.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#222

Post by rossdavidh » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:29 PM UTC

mihaaly wrote: post #148

jefe_ wrote: post #114

Boeing was still promising end of year FAA certification for 737 Max as recently as early December. Around that time, they had a spokesperson on CNBC who was asked directly how the outstanding steps (which indicated February at the earliest) aligned with their end of year statements and the position was essentially, 'we've been saying end of year and end of year could still happen.' When your brand is suffering a cri…

I am still a bit puzzled how cheerful some people seem about a product that was unable to fulfill its purpose: Starliner getting to its intended destination. Seems like they cheer that it stayed in one piece at least. Not too promising.

Well it did turn out better than the 737 MAX in that no one died...

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#223

Post by trimbo » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:29 PM UTC

Marsymars wrote: post #44

> Chairman David Calhoun will take over as CEO and president, effective Jan. 13, the company said, adding that a change in leadership was necessary to restore confidence in the company. If they wanted to restore my confidence, they’d have picked an engineer, not an accountant.

As others noted, Dennis Muilenburg is an aeronautical engineer who has been with the company since internship.

His predecessor, James McNerney, was a cost-cutting business leader who had no background in aviation. And it was his decision to do this program instead of creating an upgraded model.[1]

Which kind of makes this choice even more bizarre.

[1] - https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-boeing-bean-counters-court...

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#224

Post by AnimalMuppet » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

brohee wrote: post #38

happytoexplain wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, or if this is actually "brutal" in this context (a context I have no experience with)?

Such press releases are usually much more subdued, with the ousted CEO absolutely not replaced by the board but "voluntarily deciding to quit in order to spend more time with his family". It's pretty rare that the press release explicitely says the board ousted the CEO.

It's also pretty unusual for the press release to admit that relationships have been damaged and confidence lost.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#225

Post by rossdavidh » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

acomjean wrote: post #173

I doesn't matter. Aircraft is a dualopily right now, and I don't see anything changing that (Airbus/Boeing). If I recall Boeing asks the US to tariff Bombardiers aircraft (300%?)[1] that pushed a potential competitor (Bombardier) to work with Airbus (The Airbus 220 is a Bombardier design). edit: Added: [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/boeings-trade-dispute-canada... [1] https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing…

Afloat, yes. But I don't think Boeing is at all guaranteed at getting international business, at least not on the scale they did before, if they don't do some brutal but effective restructuring of their corporate culture. They could easily end up shut out of international airliner business indefinitely, if they keep screwing up in the way they have been so far.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#226

Post by Marsymars » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #101

Marsymars wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I wasn’t particularly down on Muilenburg, I’m aware of his credentials, but haven’t followed this Boeing story closely enough to have an opinion on his culpability with respect to the 737 MAX. So yes, if they were going to replace the CEO for the optics, “someone like Dennis Muilenburg” would have been the best-case scenario for me, rather than someone with non-engineering background/specialty. For a sports a…

I think Boeing's problems are related to leadership and having the courage to do the right thing. Good leaders can come from accountancy or engineering or wherever. We shouldn't be snobby about it and insist on an engineer when the issue at that level is not an engineering problem.

Yes, I agree! My problem is with the juxtaposition of the new CEO's background and the statement from Boeing that states only that the CEO change is to "restore confidence" rather than something like "ensure a rigorous, confidence-inspiring culture and processes from top to bottom". PR can't have its cake and eat it too.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#227

Post by Xixi » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

rectang wrote: post #152

brink wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people do get a sense of pride and fulfillment out of doing a good job that money can't provide.

We're talking about incentives . Sky-high executive compensation packages don't encourage people to do a better job — they insulate them from failure, thereby disincentivizing them and encouraging them to go down the path of short-termism.

Insulating CEOs and executive from failure is a good way to push them to take more risks, if that's what the board/shareholders want.

The issue with the 737MAX is that Boeing was too risk-averse: they should have made a brand new plane, but went with what they thought was the low-risk route with the 737 re-engine. The 787 disastrous development ($36B of deferred production costs I think) was certainly a huge cause of this.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#228

Post by AnimalMuppet » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

Ill_ban_myself wrote: post #7

Started as an intern at Boeing in 1985. 34 year career down in flames. Ouch.

Hmm. There's been a lot of talk here about the Boeing culture vs. the Lockheed culture, and how the Lockheed culture took over after the merger. Yet the CEO was a Boeing guy, not a Lockheed guy.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#229

Post by ceejayoz » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #216

ceejayoz wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While Boeing has nurtured generations of aerospace professionals in the Seattle area, there was no comparable work force in South Carolina. Instead, managers had to recruit from technical colleges in Tulsa, Okla., and Atlanta. > Managers were also urged to not hire unionized employees from the Boeing factory in Everett, where the Dreamliner is also made, according to two former employees. > “They didn’t want us bri…

So how would a union have helped with that? Qualified workers don't magically come into existence just because there's a union. The problem was the move. (True, the move was to get away from the union, but it's the move that was the problem, not the presence or absence of the union.)

They couldn't pull from their existing skilled labor pool because they didn't want the unions to get a beachhead. Having some experienced employees who already know how to make aircraft surely has some benefits when onboarding and training a new labor pool.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#230

Post by munk-a » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

fny wrote: post #110

panarky wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NYT story in particular was hard-hitting and well sourced. Gotta wonder if these stories influenced the board to act now. It's a bad look, because Boeing is consistently way too late to recognize what is obvious to those of us watching from home. I continue to be astounded that our most senior leaders will not act in the long-term best interest of the organizations they lead. It's been 37 years since the Tylenol…

How do you know the brand wouldn't have recovered from the 27% loss anyway?

They recovered while acting ethically - I think a better thing to ponder is whether the company would have gained more ground without the initial setback from pulling the product.

Though any speculation we have there is just that - pure speculation.