Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens • Hacker News Board

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#111

Post by Macha » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 4:17 PM UTC

throwno wrote: post #87

ceejayoz wrote: post #10

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/business/boeing-dreamline... > Safety lapses at the North Charleston plant have drawn the scrutiny of airlines and regulators. Qatar Airways stopped accepting planes from the factory after manufacturing mishaps damaged jets and delayed deliveries. > Less than a month after the crash of the second 737 Max jet, Boeing called North Charleston employees to an urgent meeting. The company…

On the other hand, recently Boeing has made major strides on diversity and inclusion. >Boeing has made diversity and inclusion a strategic priority — and external validators have taken notice. On May 7, it was announced that Boeing ranked 32nd out of more than 1,800 companies that participated in DiversityInc’s 2019 Top 50 Companies for Diversity survey > https://www.boeing.com/features/2019/05/diversityinc-top-50-..…

It turns out that reforming hiring practices for D&I goals gets good PR and doesn't cost so much compared to providing decent work conditions and pay...

It doesn't follow that the latter was preventing the former.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#112

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

_ph_ wrote: post #78

CodeSheikh wrote: post #54

Why don't they just kill the 737 MAX program and start on another aircraft? As a consumer it will build confidence and trust in me.

Because it will take on the order of 10 years. What are the 737 customers going to fly in the mean time? Keeping old airplanes flying longer isn't exactly increasing security either. And there is no indication so far, that a 737 MAX with a fixed MCAS isn't safe. Don't get me wrong: I think Boeing should have created a true 737 successor long ago and should do ASAP. But until it is done, there is a need for a current…

There are manufacturing lines which aren't the MAX.

The 737 NG remains in production.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#113

Post by rectang » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #28

Maybe the next CEO will actually try to fix things, seeing as how his job will likely depend on it. Fuck up like Muilenburg did and you're out too. It seems like the incentives may be correct now to focus on the right things rather than just cut costs as much as possible. Hopefully!

Why on earth would the next CEO be incentivized to do anything other than wring all the money out of the company that they can? The punishments for failure are insignificant. They get to keep millions and millions of dollars even if they wreck the company.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#114

Post by jefe_ » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

Boeing was still promising end of year FAA certification for 737 Max as recently as early December. Around that time, they had a spokesperson on CNBC who was asked directly how the outstanding steps (which indicated February at the earliest) aligned with their end of year statements and the position was essentially, 'we've been saying end of year and end of year could still happen.'

When your brand is suffering a crisis of confidence, you don't rebuild it by missing deadlines and dodging reality. The amount of hubris it takes to be so flippant in these circumstances is indicative of a deeply flawed corporate culture, and that falls at the feet of the CEO.

Also, how do you allow Starliner mission to occur without 100% confidence in ability of mission to be executed flawlessly? There are certainly complexities, but it almost seems like they passed the point when they could have quietly bumped the launch, and ended up in a literal PR gamble.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#115

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

exhilaration wrote: post #91

CodeSheikh wrote: post #54

Why don't they just kill the 737 MAX program and start on another aircraft? As a consumer it will build confidence and trust in me.

It would bankrupt the company and put them years behind Airbus.

Which would be a hell of an example of technologcial debt coming back to bite.

Boeing should have bitten the bullet on new designs long ago. They failed in this.

Some actions have consequences which don't materialise for years, or decades, or centuries.

Which is a principle weakness of the notion of market economics. The booked profits of the past 20+ years of the firm deserve restating.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#116

Post by the_duke » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

v77 wrote: post #36

solatic wrote: post #4

After both The Economist[1] and The New York Times [2] publicly undermined faith in Dennis Muilenberg. No question at this point that he needed to be replaced. The question is - why didn't the board act sooner? [1] https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/12/18/boeings-misplac... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/22/business/boeing-dennis-mu...

The Times article was the last straw, you know the board members all read that. Plus the space launch failure.

That's rarely how these things work.

Most likely some PR firm working for Boeing fed some hints to the the Times.

Boeing then waited until it was released to have a coordinated PR push and put as much blame as possible on Muilenburg.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#117

Post by doteka » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

throwno wrote: post #87

ceejayoz wrote: post #10

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/business/boeing-dreamline... > Safety lapses at the North Charleston plant have drawn the scrutiny of airlines and regulators. Qatar Airways stopped accepting planes from the factory after manufacturing mishaps damaged jets and delayed deliveries. > Less than a month after the crash of the second 737 Max jet, Boeing called North Charleston employees to an urgent meeting. The company…

On the other hand, recently Boeing has made major strides on diversity and inclusion. >Boeing has made diversity and inclusion a strategic priority — and external validators have taken notice. On May 7, it was announced that Boeing ranked 32nd out of more than 1,800 companies that participated in DiversityInc’s 2019 Top 50 Companies for Diversity survey > https://www.boeing.com/features/2019/05/diversityinc-top-50-..…

You're probably trolling but just in case - their planes not killing passengers is somewhat more important to society than the diversity of their hiring practices.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#118

Post by MaupitiBlue » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 4:20 PM UTC

codehalo wrote: post #83

MaupitiBlue wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BS! Which of these was done by the accountants? 1. Drive MCAS with only one AOA sensor. 2. Don't tell MCAS to look for (or even think about) bad AOA data or AOA disagreements. 3. Don't actually bother to tell pilots that they don't have AOA disagree warning lights. 4. Don't bother to tell pilots that MCAS exists at all. 5. Don't test MCAS subsystem to see what it actually does with bad AOA data. 6. Give MCAS a ridicu…

Your #2 implies multiple sensors (see #1). My understanding is that one AOA is default, and you could purchase additional sensors (I read somewhere that Southwest did). Sounds like the typical stupid idea suggested by a marketer or accountant that engineers beg and plead not to do. Frankly, the whole thing reeks of profit at the expense of engineering, safety, and security.

So a Professional Engineer, who would understand the implications of a single AOA sensor much better than an accountant, signed off on the design anyway?

It sounds like we need to find out who that person was and arrest them.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#119

Post by toyg » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

vermontdevil wrote: post #79

philshem wrote: post #9

November 2019 New Yorker piece about what went wrong at Boeing https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/11/18/the-case-again... tl;dr engineers vs. accountants

Yet the CEO was an engineer. From his Wiki: He graduated in 1982 from Sioux Center High School in Sioux Center, Iowa.[3] He received a bachelor's degree in Aerospace Engineering from Iowa State University, followed by a master's degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics from the University of Washington.[1] I think there's more to do it that just having an engineer or accountant as CEO.

Often the background is actually counterproductive, in the sense that somebody from the “wrong” background likely had to overcompensate to be accepted in the “right” circles, and now might be more monarchist than the monarch, so to speak.

Re: Boeing CEO ousted as 737 Max crisis deepens

#120

Post by usrusr » Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 4:21 PM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #13

Ill_ban_myself wrote: post #7

Started as an intern at Boeing in 1985. 34 year career down in flames. Ouch.

Going down in flames is a lot less dramatic when you have a nice golden parachute to ease the crash.

Golden parachutes are primarily handed out to those who are hired from the open C-level circuit into a house already on fire. They have the bargaining position to demand the "heads I win tails you lose" contracts that are known as golden parachutes. Someone who internally rose through the ranks never enjoyed that much bargaining power. He surely won't fall into poverty, but landing might not be quite as soft soft as you imagine. (not ruling out the possibility though)