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Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

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Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#241

Post by robomartin »

Zarath wrote: post #233
robomartin wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of decades ago I worked at a company that had about 200 Mac's and a similar number of PC's. One of our favorite practical jokes was to disable the mouse on Mac's. The victim quite literally could not do a thing with the computer until the mouse was re-enabled. In sharp contrast to this most Windows users could function reasonably well without the mouse. This, of course, was a long time ago. My guess is that…

That's like saying you took the pedals out of a car and people couldn't drive, it's to be expected unless they are driving a Flintstone's car.

Perhaps you lack context. At the time navigating and running almost anything under Windows without a mouse was not a problem at all. Being that the OS was relatively new and evolving (transition from W3.1 to W95 era I believe) most everyone using these machines were used to learning and using keyboard shortcuts for everything. So, yeah, Windows users at the office had no problem if we removed the mouse. In fact the prank was pointless because it was almost a challenge to show us they could still function. With Mac users --again, at that time-- they just crashed and burned.

As a side note, this was also the pre-Google Internet era, with super early Linux (can't even remember the version). I remember using NCSA Mosaic!

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#242

Post by Rebelgecko »

wlesieutre wrote: post #39
Hackbraten wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Due to the auto-hiding scrollbar and no cut off icons to the right, I had no idea that scrolling horizontally was possible. This appears to be fixed on iOS 13. Actions are now arranged vertically. The app bar above the actions still scrolls horizontally but it now hints at that by cutting off icons.

Now due to the auto-hiding scrollbar and no cut-off list items to the bottom, people have no idea that scrolling vertically is possible https://tyler.io/perfectly-cropped/ But at least we've rotated the problem by 90 degrees :P

Man, that was an infuriating read

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#243

Post by tjr225 »

I just inherited a 2009 MacBook 13" Pro from a family member. It has 2 gb of ram and a hard drive, which I plan to upgrade for about 50$. Note that it is trivial to upgrade these things. Even without these upgrades it works fine.

I have a 2013 MacBook Pro that I bought refurbished during undergrad that has been the best computer that I've ever had.

I prefer both to my work computer, a Touch Bar 13" MacBook Pro. In fact I suspect the 2009 will become my daily driver soon. Making a solid computer that lasts over a decade doesn't erode Apples profits- in fact I suspect this opposite is true. It is the same reason Toyota is the biggest auto mfg there is.

Imagine if the newest Camry was unreliable or something.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#245

Post by gen3 »

egwor wrote: post #17
bitwize wrote: post #3

Apple has fallen into the same trap that Microsoft has -- changing their UI not to advance the state of the art, but just for the sake of changing it so they have something new to sell.

The Apple TV app is a great example of half thought out design. * You start downloading a movie. It doesn't show it downloading anywhere that I could see it. The only place I could find it was by going back * I had to login about 5 times * The Apple TV app is so new that you can't give Apple Feedback because the app isn't listed. * Supposedly I get a free year of apple tv with my new mac. I have no idea where to find…

What kills me about Apple TV apps is the inconsistency between apps. Ex, the video player works differently between every app. To see how much time I have left do I swipe? Press the main button? I never know, and end up moving the currently playback time.

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#246

Post by FpUser »

PascLeRasc wrote: post #223
emidoots wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had conversations with several "designers", some from FAANG, and all have held the general belief that having strong authority over how the UI looks and getting eye-candy at the cost of usability and ergonomics was 'without doubt the right choice'. In my frank opinion, many designers hold a position of subjective judgement and thrive on the power that comes with that. This is like a developer making arbitrary…

Who could be right, the multiple designers who do this every day, or my opinion about data (which I don't see backed up by any data)? If Steve Jobs had followed user preference he'd have made a faster flip phone. On another topic, putting someone's job into quotes just isn't a good look for any argument. If you have to straw man to get your point across, it might not be that great.

"Who could be right, the multiple designers who do this every day..."

Those designer might actually be very good one's but they might have different goals. Their design might be all about eye pleasing hoping that mos potential customers will glance at it, like it and buy it. Ergonomics might not be their concern at all.

There are other UX designers though, making GUI for pilots, nuclear station operators etc. etc. They have somewhat different goals. I feel that my brain digests what they do way better then the stuff coming from a first group

I come from a different background where I learned to value reaching the goal in most clear and shortest way

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#247

Post by FpUser »

dahart wrote: post #199
FpUser wrote: post #133

I have a desktop Windows only product that I sell (10s of thousands of clients). It does not have the most eye pleasing UI design but it is very functional and ergonomic. All possible actions are clearly visible and / or discoverable. And every action can be accessed in less clicks then in any of competitor's products. I actually get some praises for it. Still every once in a while I get support email telling me that…

> he said that the beauty trumps usability/ergonomics. I just bailed out. Maybe he is right but I'll stick to what I believe works. I’m with you. Speaking personally, I think he is wrong. My definition of true beauty is both appearance and design. Something that is pretty to look at but not very ergonomic is ultimately not truly beautiful, in my mind. For something to be truly beautiful, it must be both sexy looking…

I love industrial design. Because it mostly exposes function and quality. Stuff made for home use, sure it is pretty but they can have that plastic for themselves ;)

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#248

Post by FpUser »

frank2 wrote: post #203
FpUser wrote: post #133

I have a desktop Windows only product that I sell (10s of thousands of clients). It does not have the most eye pleasing UI design but it is very functional and ergonomic. All possible actions are clearly visible and / or discoverable. And every action can be accessed in less clicks then in any of competitor's products. I actually get some praises for it. Still every once in a while I get support email telling me that…

Did you consider giving the the user some way to configure the text color?

I only make configurable things that MUST be configured. I've long learned that my audience when it comes to handling software for better or worse has the average intelligence approaching that of my cat.

Not trying to insult here. Just general observation

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#249

Post by Zarath »

judge2020 wrote: post #38
josteink wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hidden things like 3D Touch is the exact problem I’ve had an iPhone for around 5 years now and I still have no idea what 3D Touch is. I hear it’s not supported on all models, so my phone may be lacking it, but if it does, I wouldn’t even be able to tell.

Pressing hard on a UI element, like an app icon[0], tweet, etc will show certain actions. On the newer models without a pressure-sensing screen, you can hold the UI icon for about a second to perform the same thing. 0: https://imgur.com/a/wOTDT3s

Hmm interesting. I always knew I had to press and hold with different pressure on songs in my library to pull up different menus but I didn't realize that this is what that was. Thanks

Re: Apple's products are getting harder to use, ignore principles of design (2015)

#250

Post by kick »

davidmurdoch wrote: post #216
kick wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many things that are missing that are obvious, such as being able to organize the icons on your Home screen as you wish like you can do in Android, This is bad on a mobile operating system. I had the displeasure of trying a device running Android's default UIs a few weeks ago: it felt like a Fisher-Price toy. Apple's model of organization is better in every way.

You could just organize things Apple's way if you wanted to though. Sometimes it seems like Apple's lack of choice is the primary reason people prefer Apple.

It's like C++ versus an elegant language like k. k is obviously better, because of its constraints, not despite them.
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