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Recycling Rethink: What to Do with Trash Now China Won’t Take It

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Re: Recycling Rethink: What to Do with Trash Now China Won’t Take It

#31
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of landfill is really low, so it wouldn’t make any difference if it were added to the cost of plastic. The world has a lot of important environmental problems, like climate change. Landfill space is not an important environmental problem. You should spend your worrying energy on something else.

A meta study of papers doing lifecycle cost analysis of the options shows that on several metrics, including climate change reduction, landfill is worse than both incineration and recycling for a broad range of materials. This is why almost every functional government in the world legislates accordingly. This is partly due to the energy cost of new vs recycled so somewhat ironically landfill becomes a slightly better…

can you cite this meta study please?

i very, very much doubt that said study existed at the time these decisions were made.

also the energy cost is a wash (or loss) for almost all but aluminum. glass would be fine but we are awash in glass, so AIUI cardboard and aluminum are the only consumer items worth recycling when consider energy and other input costs. i’ve no idea on total climate impact (eg greenhouse gas production) though and i don’t doubt you. i only doubt your assertion that governments made these decisions with that in mind.

Re: Recycling Rethink: What to Do with Trash Now China Won’t Take It

#32
post #4

This is a source of anxiety for me lately. We use plastic everywhere and yet seem to not know what to do with it. Plastic is cheap they say, but would plastic be so cheap if we had to factor in the price of recycling it or at least handling its after life? Would it be realistic to ask to think about what to do with wastes of the products sold?

Sweden just burns it cleanly. I don't have any anxiety over the single-use plastic I use, just frustration that we worry too much about what to do with it. Now the Pacific trash island is another story...

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/climate/sweden-garbage-us...

That said, I keep hoping thermal depolymerization takes off.

Re: Recycling Rethink: What to Do with Trash Now China Won’t Take It

#34

Its the industries and businesses with the plastic addiction problem, not the consumer. This is similar to making a bad long-term bet and having to pay up. There are a lot of other attractive choices to plastic, but the window to transition seemlessly appears to be closing more and more each week. Seeing the death of coal should give them a map to follow. They made a bad bet on the future too.

it’s a tragedy of the commons problem. plastic is essentially free, so once one manufacturer can make the same consumer quality product with plastic instead of [whatever else], it forces the hands of all other manufacturers.

this needs to be solved with regulation.

Re: Recycling Rethink: What to Do with Trash Now China Won’t Take It

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A meta study of papers doing lifecycle cost analysis of the options shows that on several metrics, including climate change reduction, landfill is worse than both incineration and recycling for a broad range of materials. This is why almost every functional government in the world legislates accordingly. This is partly due to the energy cost of new vs recycled so somewhat ironically landfill becomes a slightly better…

can you cite this meta study please? i very, very much doubt that said study existed at the time these decisions were made. also the energy cost is a wash (or loss) for almost all but aluminum. glass would be fine but we are awash in glass, so AIUI cardboard and aluminum are the only consumer items worth recycling when consider energy and other input costs. i’ve no idea on total climate impact (eg greenhouse gas prod…

https://aip.scitation.org/doi/pdf/10.1063/1.4965581

and

https://www.wrap.org.uk/content/environmental-benefits-recyc...

A summary from the latter talking specifically about plastic (though the document covers other materials):

The results confirm that mechanical recycling is the best waste management option in respect of the climate change potential, depletion of natural resources and energy demand impacts. The analysis highlights again that these benefits of recycling are mainly achieved by avoiding production of virgin plastics.

The environmental benefits are maximised by collection of good quality material (to limit the rejected fraction) and by replacement of virgin plastics on a high ratio (1 to 1).

Incineration with energy recovery performs poorly with respect to climate change impact

Landfill is confirmed as having the worst environmental impacts in the majority of cases.

As the UK moves to a lower-carbon energy mix, recycling will become increasingly favoured.

Re: Recycling Rethink: What to Do with Trash Now China Won’t Take It

#36
If only three plastics were used in packaging -- say, polyethylene, polyethylene terephthalate and polycarbonate -- recycling would be much easier. If they're clean and well separated, they can just be reused. Iffy polyethylene makes great "lumber" for decks, or roofing tiles. Iffy polyethylene terephthalate is great for fleece. Iffy polycarbonate plus carbon black is great for structural applications.

Re: Recycling Rethink: What to Do with Trash Now China Won’t Take It

#37
post #30
post #21

> As of October, U.S. scrap exports of plastic to mainland China were down 89% since early 2017, when China began to make clear it would ban many categories, while mixed paper exports were down 96%, according to the Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries. Total U.S. plastic scrap exports to all countries were down 64% in that time period, while mixed paper exports were down 42% according to ISRI. The article doesn't…

Are you suggesting China was just burning all the recyclables? If so why did they stop?

China has a massive pollution problem.

If China were to burn all recyclables in a manner consistent with the rest of their industrialization, the process probably wasn’t very clean.

China could invest in cleaner recycling processes, but a quick way to reduce a problem is to reduce its scope, and banning imports of recyclable material is certainly a quick way to do that, everyone else be damned.

(I don’t really think China burnt all of it, but if they did and stopped this would be why.)

Re: Recycling Rethink: What to Do with Trash Now China Won’t Take It

#38
Automated sorting works fine. The newer recycling plants need no human pickers. It's not the robotics startups that are the ones to watch. It's companies like Bulk Handling Systems, from Oregon, which integrates different kinds of machines into a recycling line where mixed junk comes in one end and bales of useful stuff come out the other. They view the robotic grabbers as "automated quality control units". The mechanical and air systems do most of the separation; the robots just grab stuff that was mis-sorted by the other systems.

The main vision systems are now fast enough that sorters work by moving objects on a wide, fast belt where they go flying off the end. While in flight, multispectral cameras look at the objects, using both reflected and transmitted light, and within milliseconds trigger air jets to blow items in the desired direction. Most robotics videos from startups are sped up because the thing is so slow. The ones from commercially successful sorting companies are slowed down so you can see what's happening.

The problem is what to do with the sorted stuff. It's just not very valuable. It's possible to recycle plastic bottles all the way back to more plastic bottles. A huge plant near LA does this for most of southern California. States that charge a recycling fee for containers can handle it, but those that don't...

Re: Recycling Rethink: What to Do with Trash Now China Won’t Take It

#39
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of landfill is really low, so it wouldn’t make any difference if it were added to the cost of plastic. The world has a lot of important environmental problems, like climate change. Landfill space is not an important environmental problem. You should spend your worrying energy on something else.

I can't help but think that filling the earth with trash is not the correct solution to the problem, however convenient it may be.

Remember all that same stuff was taken out of the earth at one point.

Re: Recycling Rethink: What to Do with Trash Now China Won’t Take It

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm continually amazed at how popular the concept of mining landfills for resources is in this forum, while at the same time recycling is regularly dismissed as wishful thinking. Perhaps it just needs rebranded as pre-emptive landfill mining?

It's super duper shitty ore, basically useless.

On a literal sense no less
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