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The world’s most-beloved money-losing business needs your help

blog.flickr.net

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Re: The world’s most-beloved money-losing business needs your help

#21
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too. It reminded me of the time I discovered how much Wikimedia spends on salaries [1]. At the time I was sure it would lead to a collapse in donations. [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_salarie...

Those salaries are downright modest for something as significant as Wikipedia. I was expecting to see multi-million dollar payouts to execs

In countries in Europe, salaries typically show less variance (in the Netherlands, 1.7k gross is minimum wage. Seniors usually make about 5-6k a month in jobs that are not super high-profile. After tax, figures are much closer).

The executives earn about 10 times what I make as a compiler engineer in a developed country. I wouldn't exactly call it modest, but it's not totally outrageous, I guess.

Re: The world’s most-beloved money-losing business needs your help

#22
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We moved the platform and every photo to Amazon Web Services (AWS), the industry leader in cloud computing, and modernized its technology along the way. As a result, pages are already 20% faster and photos load 30% more quickly. Platform outages, including Pandas, are way down. Flickr continues to get faster and more stable, and important new features are being built once again. SmugMug did it primarily to improve…

It's a bit of a chicken-and-the-egg problem, but not really. They still needed a solid business plan how to earn money from Flickr before moving to AWS (or any other expensive global cloud) - this kind of looks like they've thought of asking for money AFTER the move. Hope the 30% increase in performance was worth it...

> They still needed a solid business plan how to earn money from Flickr...

SmugMug, by their own admission, bought Flickr to help keep it alive. Currently, they're not even looking to make money but reduce the operating costs. I'm sure they didn't take the decision to move to AWS lightly, at all.

> ...this kind of looks like they've thought of asking for money AFTER the move.

May be you're right that it might have been a mistake, but the fact that SmugMug are a heavy AWS user means it might have made a lot of sense to leverage not only the engineering and operational expertise but also the heavily discounted rates they must have negotiated with AWS?

Re: The world’s most-beloved money-losing business needs your help

#23
post #11

>> We moved the platform and every photo to Amazon Web Services (AWS) This is not a way to go for a financially troubled company.

What is the way to go?

For a large-storage, network-heavy content, optimizing the storage and network delivery costs. Colocation for cheaper storage, peering and direct ISP contracts for the network.

Re: The world’s most-beloved money-losing business needs your help

#24
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of a chicken-and-the-egg problem, but not really. They still needed a solid business plan how to earn money from Flickr before moving to AWS (or any other expensive global cloud) - this kind of looks like they've thought of asking for money AFTER the move. Hope the 30% increase in performance was worth it...

> They still needed a solid business plan how to earn money from Flickr... SmugMug, by their own admission, bought Flickr to help keep it alive. Currently, they're not even looking to make money but reduce the operating costs. I'm sure they didn't take the decision to move to AWS lightly, at all. > ...this kind of looks like they've thought of asking for money AFTER the move. May be you're right that it might have be…

Bandwidth and storage is likely still killing them. Should've put it in Backblaze B2 and paid Cloudflare for CDN.

Re: The world’s most-beloved money-losing business needs your help

#25
post #9

Smugmug haven't exactly been kind to the Flickr community - they walked back the "free forever" promises made by Marissa Meyer and deleted a lot of photos belonging to anyone who didn't subscribe to a pro plan after the acquisition. I'm not sure how they expect the community to have much goodwill towards them after that move.

This was my question as well. SmugMug presumably did their due diligence before making the acquisition, they should have had a decent idea of what it would cost them to operate Flickr even with the old unlimited-storage model. So I was surprised after they made the acquisition to see them abandon that model and delete tons of images users had uploaded to the service in good faith -- it seemed like the cost of hosting…

To be fair “free forever” ceases to apply when the business is about to be taken out back and shot dead, and 1,000 photos still free is 1,000 more photos than a dead business. I’d also imagine probabilistic steps towards break even were considered before undertaking breathing new life into it.

Second, one can’t always know “if the math works” because untested models depend on people. While Yahoo/VZ could have run tests to predict uptake, in a transition like this, there may not be the luxury of that level of market research. Entrepreneurs are regularly called on to make calls absent enough data, and have the character to course correct with candor. I think we’re seeing that character play out here.

Last, much larger revenue Internet services than SmugMug/Flickr are all in on “notoriously expensive” AWS/S3 as well, some with budgets that start with a B. What do they know that readers here might be missing about the TCO of ‘things like static images’?

For one, “notoriously expensive for things like static images” may be misunderstanding the value of a single image to its owner. To them, that image may be “priceless”.

When dealing with a set of images as an emotion archive rather than as a static image CDN, losing any single image should not be an option.

Static “image hosting” services lose images on a regular basis. S3 by and large doesn’t lose objects. If I could only have a single copy of something in a single place, I’d want it on S3. In that “you had one job” category, S3 is a game changer at a remarkably reasonable price.

Regardless of one’s opinion of S3, comparing tables of features may be missing critical differences that don’t manifest in that feature table, differences well worth the expense relative to other costs or opportunity costs.

Re: The world’s most-beloved money-losing business needs your help

#26
post #14
post #9

Smugmug haven't exactly been kind to the Flickr community - they walked back the "free forever" promises made by Marissa Meyer and deleted a lot of photos belonging to anyone who didn't subscribe to a pro plan after the acquisition. I'm not sure how they expect the community to have much goodwill towards them after that move.

My photography teachers stressed the importance of "culling" your work and displaying only the best photographs you've taken. I think allowing 1000 free photos is very generous for a fine art photography platform, which is what I want it to be. I've been taking photography seriously as a hobby for the past three years, and I use Flickr primarily as my portfolio, and right now I have between 100-200 photos on my accou…

[deleted]

Re: The world’s most-beloved money-losing business needs your help

#27
post #9

Smugmug haven't exactly been kind to the Flickr community - they walked back the "free forever" promises made by Marissa Meyer and deleted a lot of photos belonging to anyone who didn't subscribe to a pro plan after the acquisition. I'm not sure how they expect the community to have much goodwill towards them after that move.

Turns out Marissa made a false promise. Who would have thought it? We live in sad times when we are upset by moves necessary for financial solvency, instead of holding to account bulls__t peddlers that promise "free" stuff while donning their golden parachutes.

Re: The world’s most-beloved money-losing business needs your help

#28
post #11

>> We moved the platform and every photo to Amazon Web Services (AWS) This is not a way to go for a financially troubled company.

I was going to say if they are using a low-cost CDN it's not that bad.

My guess would be their main costs are from hosting all those high-res images, not anything they are doing with EC2 instances. So who cares if they pay a little more for their servers?

But I did a lookup - and live.staticflickr.com is using CloudFront for their CDN. That means they're paying a 5X premium just for image hosting. No need to have the CEO make a blog post acting like he's the Jimmy Wales of image hosting... just switch to a cheap CDN already.

Re: The world’s most-beloved money-losing business needs your help

#30
post #11

>> We moved the platform and every photo to Amazon Web Services (AWS) This is not a way to go for a financially troubled company.

> We moved the platform and every photo to Amazon Web Services (AWS), the industry leader in cloud computing, and modernized its technology along the way. As a result, pages are already 20% faster and photos load 30% more quickly. Platform outages, including Pandas, are way down. Flickr continues to get faster and more stable, and important new features are being built once again. SmugMug did it primarily to improve…

That's like saying "if a car manufacturer is really large, the only way to make it work is to outsource its car manufacturing". I guess so, if they forgot how their core business works. Seems like Flickr forgot how to website.
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