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Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

economist.com

21–30 of 92 posts

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#21

If Apple trusts the security of its own operating system, it should be able to sandbox the apps just like any other app. While the US doesn’t force companies to install apps, it does force companies to support E911 and the system used for Amber alerts and other mandated alerts.

Device management apps are given access to (almost) everything by the operating system by design. Further, it seems Russia wants the same unrestricted access to iCloud data that China got. Apple has already set a precedent with China, so expect more of this.

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#22
post #9

>Local digital-rights activists like Artem Kozlyuk are worried, saying that these apps could “secretly collect information: location, tools and services being used and so on”. Technically impossible. >The apps can be deleted, but only if users know to do that Like any other app. >and there are suspicions that they might leave behind backdoors into users’ phones after they are gone. Technically impossible. I can't rea…

How are those technical impossibilities? They're all essentially what Snowden says the NSA has been doing. It's a perfectly logical concern of a country demanding apps to be installed. Hell, it's been a problem with the Facebook app getting information people didn't realize it was capable of collecting.

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#23
post #9

>Local digital-rights activists like Artem Kozlyuk are worried, saying that these apps could “secretly collect information: location, tools and services being used and so on”. Technically impossible. >The apps can be deleted, but only if users know to do that Like any other app. >and there are suspicions that they might leave behind backdoors into users’ phones after they are gone. Technically impossible. I can't rea…

It's only technically impossible if the system software and/or hardware can't be compromised/exploited.

If you are just going by the intent and marketing of any platform vendor, plenty of things are technically impossible. But exploits and flaws in software and hardware exist, and the resources a nation state can bring to bear to find and use them are significant.

There is a reason vendors run bug bounty programmes, why the jailbreak scene is still a thing, and cybercrime in general is booming.

No one vendor has solved computer security.

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#24

If Apple trusts the security of its own operating system, it should be able to sandbox the apps just like any other app. While the US doesn’t force companies to install apps, it does force companies to support E911 and the system used for Amber alerts and other mandated alerts.

>While the US doesn’t force companies to install apps, it does force companies to support E911 and the system used for Amber alerts and other mandated alerts.

There's a huge difference between "implement this standard on your phones" and "execute this binary blob".

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#25
While I personally strongly dislike the law discussed in the article, I find the title misleading.

Taken at face value, the law, as approved by the Russian parliament [1], is, ostensibly, designed to improve the experience of the local customers (who, annoyingly, are depicted as too clueless to know how to install the applications they want). It is introduced under the rubric of "protecting customers rights", demands that smartphones, PCs and smart TVs come with pre-installed local software, and surely, surely, could be spun under a different narrative: an adorably humanist one, concerned with tailoring to the local language and culture (which might have been chosen by the left-leaning commentariat if it were about a small country obsessed with preserving its national identity), or a cynically economical one, focused on protecting local jobs.

Again, I am not defending the law — I find it offensive towards the customers who have to delete all that pre-installed crap. I am just amused by the tone that the Economist has chosen to present this news.

1 - https://sozd.duma.gov.ru/bill/757423-7, in Russian

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#26

If Apple trusts the security of its own operating system, it should be able to sandbox the apps just like any other app. While the US doesn’t force companies to install apps, it does force companies to support E911 and the system used for Amber alerts and other mandated alerts.

Device management apps are given access to (almost) everything by the operating system by design. Further, it seems Russia wants the same unrestricted access to iCloud data that China got. Apple has already set a precedent with China, so expect more of this.

It wasn’t stated that Russia was mandating device management.

And just like if a regular app can cause security issues, it’s the fault of the operating system and should be fixed, if your data on the cloud can be read by an adversary, instead of only having the private keys on the device, that’s a flaw in the implementation that Apple needs to fix. Yes si realize that everything stored on iCloud is not E2E encrypted. That’s the real issue, not that the data is in China.

I don’t trust the US government anymore than I trust the Chinese government.

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#29

If Apple trusts the security of its own operating system, it should be able to sandbox the apps just like any other app. While the US doesn’t force companies to install apps, it does force companies to support E911 and the system used for Amber alerts and other mandated alerts.

Device management apps are given access to (almost) everything by the operating system by design. Further, it seems Russia wants the same unrestricted access to iCloud data that China got. Apple has already set a precedent with China, so expect more of this.

> Apple has already set a precedent with China

There was a series in a British magazine, many years ago, where a journalist would ring up a restaurant asking for special treatment for a celebrity. So they'd ring up The Ivy or whatever and say "Look, Madonna is coming in, is it possible you can serve her kid some chips?". The gag was that when it was an A-lister, the restaurant would always bend over backwards for them, but when they rang up as Kerry Katona or something, the restaurant would give a stiffly worded response along the lines of "The Ivy only serves the highest in culinary quality, and Ms Katona should leave her kids at home".

Anyway, China is a gigantic, buoyant market with a huge and growing middle class who will be Apple consumers for a long time, and also a crucial part of Apple's manufacturing strategy. CCP ain't going anywhere fast.

Russia is a failing state, and anyone who aides and abets the regime is likely to be considered an enemy of the people in a few years time, let alone the reputational damage in other Western countries of supporting Putin's regime.

Re: Russia presses Apple to install Kremlin-approved apps

#30
post #24

If Apple trusts the security of its own operating system, it should be able to sandbox the apps just like any other app. While the US doesn’t force companies to install apps, it does force companies to support E911 and the system used for Amber alerts and other mandated alerts.

>While the US doesn’t force companies to install apps, it does force companies to support E911 and the system used for Amber alerts and other mandated alerts. There's a huge difference between "implement this standard on your phones" and "execute this binary blob".

There are millions of “binary blobs” written by third parties on iOS. Its Apple’s responsibility to write an operating system that can run in hostile environments.
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