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Who Was the Buddha?

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Re: Who Was the Buddha?

#161

Post by jbotz »

larnmar wrote: post #28

I’m confused why the article doesn’t consider the initial question of whether the historical Buddha existed at all. Given the amount of ink that has been spilled over the existence or otherwise of the historical Jesus, and the even spottier historical sources about Buddha (we can’t even nail him down to a specific century), isn’t this question worthy of consideration?

I'm really far from an expert on this, but I've read quite a lot on the subject and my understanding is that there is considerably more historical evidence for Gautama-the-Buddha being a single real person than for Jesus Christ, that "we can't even nail him down to a specific century" notwithstanding. In the case of Jesus the timing isn't much of a question because of the well-accounted for political events of the time, whereas perhaps India at the time lacked sufficiently standard date-keeping system for us to synchronize the writings now.

But as I understand it the Buddha is mentioned in a lot of completely independent contemporaneous texts whereas Jesus is basically only mentioned only in the Bible. In itself that doesn't prove anything... the Buddha was active as a spiritual leader for many decades, and Jesus only for 3 years, and maybe the wider society around Jesus was just much more interested in political events whereas Indian society as a whole at the time of Buddha was exploring more spiritual and philosophical dimensions. But I've always had the impression that there are proportionally more history scholars who question the existence of Jesus as a single real person than that of the Buddha.

Re: Who Was the Buddha?

#162

Post by stallmanite »

ghthor wrote: post #71
tim333 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Buddhism is special for atheistic, humanist philosophies in that the foundational writings didn't go on about God. Of course people may have tacked stuff on subsequently. The Torah, the teachings of Jesus and Muhammad on the other hand all recognise Genesis and "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth..."

The torah as commonly translated does, but there is an interesting work from a physicist that brings a very atheistic/geometric translation of the torah to light that has been blowing my mind. https://youtu.be/OJGW2UANWRE

Thanks for the oddball YouTube link. Love finding gold with <300 views.

Re: Who Was the Buddha?

#163

Post by [deleted] »

gerbilly wrote: post #157
Shihan wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard this story a few weeks ago and it made me realize a thing that I dislike in Zen Buddhism, at least the perception of Zen Buddhism I have. Isn't this way (and surely other ways) of Buddhism not also some "tainted" way of life. For me it looks very Nihilistic. Shouldn't Buddha be a good role-model - so how can he have left wife and kid? In Buddhism or at least Zen Buddhism I believe there is great emphasis on t…

> So it makes sense, that Buddha has left his family to sit under the tree. But for me this is such a denial of the human nature and thus it feels unnatural, unwise and just like other religions and sects with their doctrines and dogma. The separation was a during his spiritual search. After he attained what he was looking for he reunited with his son. Sometimes we have to go away to figure things out. After he reach…

[deleted]

Re: Who Was the Buddha?

#164

Post by euske »

soufron wrote: post #154
euske wrote: post #102

I'm technically a Buddhist as with 90% of other Japanese people, but don't know anything about Buddhism. ("Technically" means that you're going to have a Buddhist-style burial which requires a registration by a Buddhist temple in Japan.) So let me just share a fun fact: it is widely believed that there are many Buddha relics (bones) that were originally brought from China/India and people built temples that store the…

Aren't japanese people shintoists rather than buddhists?

Shintoism and Buddhism aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, the two religions are fused in a rather unique way in Japan (cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinbutsu-sh%C5%ABg%C5%8D ). Both religions lost its belief system today and there are only a set of practices, so many people do both. In this sense, they aren't really "religions" in the Western sense.

Re: Who Was the Buddha?

#165

Post by joveian »

soufron wrote: post #156
goodcanadian wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your question presupposes that there is significant doubt about the existence of Jesus. I am fairly confident that the historical person existed. I am also fairly confident that many of the stories about him are invented or at least, greatly exaggerated. The same applies to Buddha; however, a sibling comment answered much better than I.

Given that there are no historical proofs of the existence of Jesus - especially nothing contemporary, it's a legitimate question.

This is just wrong, there are contemporary sources. Here is a short overview:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/what-is-the-hi...

Re: Who Was the Buddha?

#166

Post by m0llusk »

soufron wrote: post #154
euske wrote: post #102

I'm technically a Buddhist as with 90% of other Japanese people, but don't know anything about Buddhism. ("Technically" means that you're going to have a Buddhist-style burial which requires a registration by a Buddhist temple in Japan.) So let me just share a fun fact: it is widely believed that there are many Buddha relics (bones) that were originally brought from China/India and people built temples that store the…

Aren't japanese people shintoists rather than buddhists?

Buddhism was extremely popular and influential in Japan until roughly the time of the Samurai, though many factors are involved with this change. It is interesting that in Buddhist dominated Japan use of cannabis was common, even ubiquitous. This changed completely with the rise of the Samurai, leading to the strongly anti cannabis and alcohol tolerant society in Japan now.

Re: Who Was the Buddha?

#167

Post by tim333 »

gerbilly wrote: post #157
Shihan wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard this story a few weeks ago and it made me realize a thing that I dislike in Zen Buddhism, at least the perception of Zen Buddhism I have. Isn't this way (and surely other ways) of Buddhism not also some "tainted" way of life. For me it looks very Nihilistic. Shouldn't Buddha be a good role-model - so how can he have left wife and kid? In Buddhism or at least Zen Buddhism I believe there is great emphasis on t…

> So it makes sense, that Buddha has left his family to sit under the tree. But for me this is such a denial of the human nature and thus it feels unnatural, unwise and just like other religions and sects with their doctrines and dogma. The separation was a during his spiritual search. After he attained what he was looking for he reunited with his son. Sometimes we have to go away to figure things out. After he reach…

Well the Buddha is usually brought up as a nice guy rather than the conquering, massacring type. Hence the different standards.

Re: Who Was the Buddha?

#168

Post by krapp »

m0llusk wrote: post #166
soufron wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't japanese people shintoists rather than buddhists?

Buddhism was extremely popular and influential in Japan until roughly the time of the Samurai, though many factors are involved with this change. It is interesting that in Buddhist dominated Japan use of cannabis was common, even ubiquitous. This changed completely with the rise of the Samurai, leading to the strongly anti cannabis and alcohol tolerant society in Japan now.

I was under the impression that Japan's anti-cannabis culture came about as a result of American occupation and postwar industrialization (the latter, primarily, to favor synthetic rope and fabric manufacturing over Japan's native hemp industries.)

Re: Who Was the Buddha?

#169

Post by krapp »

soufron wrote: post #154
euske wrote: post #102

I'm technically a Buddhist as with 90% of other Japanese people, but don't know anything about Buddhism. ("Technically" means that you're going to have a Buddhist-style burial which requires a registration by a Buddhist temple in Japan.) So let me just share a fun fact: it is widely believed that there are many Buddha relics (bones) that were originally brought from China/India and people built temples that store the…

Aren't japanese people shintoists rather than buddhists?

Japan is more of a syncretic society than any one or another thing. I believe a popular saying over there is something like "Born Shinto, marry Christian, die Buddhist."

Re: Who Was the Buddha?

#170

Post by brigandish »

zepto wrote: post #159
brigandish wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would define a framework as set of methods and practices to apply to a specific problem domain, those methods based on principles/conclusions arrived at from observation of that domain. If the teachings of Jesus are a framework that religions have taken on and not a doctrine, then you should specify: 1. what the problem domain is 2. what the conclusions drawn about that domain are 3. what the principles are and how…

Just because the teachings of Jesus aren’t presented in the format you prefer doesn’t mean they can’t be. It’s not hard to do this, so I’ll leave that as an exercise for you. Who said the framework has to be useful for atheists?

If it's a framework then it will be able to be applied in several contexts. Hence, there are a set of questions that help show it is a framework. It doesn't have to be useful for atheists but it would go a long way to showing it's a framework and not a religion.

I'd be more than happy to go through all of those questions for Buddhism (or Prince2 or Rails or any framework), it would be easy. I can't see how it would be done for Christianity, nor for any formulation of Jesus' teachings, but if you know how, you should!

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