This Page is Designed to Last • Hacker News Board

Re: This Page is Designed to Last

#101

Post by juststeve » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 1:08 AM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #79

fyp wrote: post #69

I don't think there's any good solution to the dead link problem. For example there are 11 links in this article: https://jeffhuang.com/ https://gomakethings.com/the-web-is-not-dying/ https://archivebox.io/ https://webmasters.stackexchange.com/questions/25315/hotlinking-what-is-it-and-why-shouldnt-people-do-it https://goaccess.io/ https://victorzhou.com/blog/minify-svgs/ https://evilmartians.com/chronicles/images-don…

I think the Stack Overflow guidelines have "solved" this problem in about the cleanest way currently possible: expect links to die, and include the relevant information in your answer. If the link still works when it gets clicked on that's a bonus, but it shouldn't need to be available for the content you're reading to be understandable.

And there's also the HTTP 300 codes if content has been moved.

Re: This Page is Designed to Last

#102

Post by zzo38computer » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 1:08 AM UTC

masswerk wrote: post #100

zzo38computer wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, it is correct, we do not need much markup other than the five you specified, plus hyperlinks; those are good enough. Yes, the client should decides how it looks.

I'd include lists and tables for data presentation. Also, we may want some (additional) tags to manage footnotes and references (these were in SGMLguid, but didn't make it into HTML.)

O, yes, we forgot that. Footnotes, lists, and tables, are good too.

Re: This Page is Designed to Last

#103

Post by gildas » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 1:09 AM UTC

j88439h84 wrote: post #99

bloopernova wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually this week asked the author of SingleFile if he could implement a save-on-bookmark feature for SingleFile, and he was amenable: https://github.com/gildas-lormeau/SingleFile https://github.com/gildas-lormeau/SingleFile/issues/320

Nice. FYI there's also SingleFileZ > SingleFileZ is a fork of SingleFile that allows you to save a webpage as a self-extracting HTML file. This HTML file is also a valid ZIP file which contains the resources (images, fonts, stylesheets and frames) of the saved page. https://github.com/gildas-lormeau/SingleFileZ

I'll implement the "save bookmark page" feature in both extensions :)

Re: This Page is Designed to Last

#104

Post by joppy » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #82

mark242 wrote: post #14

I fundamentally agree with the principle -- that pages should be designed to survive a long time -- however the steps the author lays out I completely disagree with. "The more libraries incorporated into the website, the more fragile it becomes" is just fundamentally untrue in a world where you're self-hosting all of your scripts. "Prefer one page over several" is diametrically opposed to the hypertext model. Please…

>Use whatever typography you want, so long as you self host the woff files. or use Google Web fonts, and set let last option in your font-family to be "serif" or "sans-serif" to let an appropriate typeface be used if your third-party font is unreachable. That's the beauty of text, the content should still be readable even if your desired font is unavailable.

Google web fonts were a great way to make my site slower. I don’t know if it’s the latency here in Australia or what, but (especially for developing locally) google web fonts were a big headache for having snappy webpages. I took the time one day to produce my own webfont files and self-host those, and the difference in site load speed is like night and day.

Re: This Page is Designed to Last

#105

Post by luxuryballs » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

This is also why if you ever want to make a platform or service that will rely on permanent links make sure you consider making configurable/trackable routing as part of a resource’s stored data record, not just whatever your application decides at the time. That way when you inevitably want to upgrade the system and change the routing you can always maintain the old ones because they aren’t purely defined by application implementation. This is the difference between crafting software to do something and crafting software to build something that manages the thing you want to do.

Re: This Page is Designed to Last

#106

Post by bloopernova » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 1:15 AM UTC

gildas wrote: post #103

j88439h84 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice. FYI there's also SingleFileZ > SingleFileZ is a fork of SingleFile that allows you to save a webpage as a self-extracting HTML file. This HTML file is also a valid ZIP file which contains the resources (images, fonts, stylesheets and frames) of the saved page. https://github.com/gildas-lormeau/SingleFileZ

I'll implement the "save bookmark page" feature in both extensions :)

oh, hello! It's funny how this subject has popped up again.

Re: This Page is Designed to Last

#107

Post by Rexxar » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 1:17 AM UTC

trynewideas wrote: post #6

Why minify SVGs, but not HTML? Aren't both gzipped by the server? Is it because you're not expected to hand-edit SVGs in this scenario?

Indeed, it should be use "plain svg" image instead. Some drawing program like Inkscape use SVG as their save format and add a lot of internal tags/properties that are just junk for other programs. Generally they offer the option to save as "plain svg" without all of this tags.

Re: This Page is Designed to Last

#108

Post by gildas » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 1:19 AM UTC

bloopernova wrote: post #106

gildas wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll implement the "save bookmark page" feature in both extensions :)

oh, hello! It's funny how this subject has popped up again.

Hi! I think it confirms that there's a real interest in this feature.

Re: This Page is Designed to Last

#109

Post by 6510 » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 1:21 AM UTC

I have to compliment Jeff for first telling me unpopular things I already believe then adding sensible things to it (except the link back to his page)

The idea ForEach person to write just one single web page is really wonderful. I'm going to have to deeply ponder that and make one.

While I really like the permanent web and losing centralized control over data is a price worth paying (.... no wait, I would pay money not to have this.) the winning method of making cars last 100 years is maintenance not build quality.

That said, here are some similar ideas of mine:

I often add a torrent magnet uri when I link to youtube. I seed those torrents myself and sometimes someone helps. If the content was good enough and yt deletes it for whatever [stooopid] reason there would be more seeds.

Here http://dr-lexus.go-here.nl I, in stead, try to "sell" the idea that [besides from stuff breaking] people use and will use a combination of Adblock Plus, NoScript, RequestPolicy, Ghostery and JSOff to break your stuff.

You can put a really tiny bit of css inline and at least render the page properly if the css fails for whatever reason.

I really dislike how our websites merely provide just one location for everything so I wrote this:

The page has an example failing back to data-uri which imho looks surprisingly decent for its size. Its way better than having a hole in the page.

Re: This Page is Designed to Last

#110

Post by keithnz » Fri, Dec 20, 2019, 1:22 AM UTC

bit disappointed, mainly because I was expecting something a bit different. I was hoping to see something that has some ideas that would make things last beyond the original author, say for 100 years. Of course that's hard to predict given tech will change, but what the best guess effort to make your page last as long as it possibly can into the future

You need to address the problem of domain names...the author has a vanity domain name that needs to be paid for that will need to continue to be paid for, so may need to pigggyback onto another domain

Hosting might be tricky

My best guess is MAYBE something like Github would solve both issues....