Earlier quoted context omitted.
I love judgemental feedback, because then I can return it in kind.
That's probably why they don't offer it and why the interviews that do have become more exam like vs reciprocal. That a big tradeoff to make. I am not sure of the full implications but we do see issues with teaching to the test as well as examination driven cultures in traditional schooling. These test driven processes do not translate into economic success as you'd expect.
Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback
131–140 of 348 posts
Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback
#132Even worse, we have things like Rooftop Slushie where FAANG engineers will give candidates feedback but for a price. As if FAANG engineers weren’t paid enough.
One gap that individuals can bridge is for IC interviewers to ask for feedback on their own interviewing. ICs typically don’t see how well hires do through year one, and almost never see where non-hires go. Hiring managers often stay on top of this data (or at least have access to it) in order to self-calibrate. If that data has any chance of helping inform candidates, it needs to trickle down to the IC interviewers first.
Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback
#133The big one is starting a debate. Because I'm a helpful person when someone asked for feedback why they weren't getting the job I would offer them my thoughts. Way too often this turned into a discussion by them to me about how I was wrong about them and my thoughts didn't apply. Sometimes it might be due to a phenomenal lack of self awareness and sometimes it might be a negotiation tactic, but it always was awkward and uncomfortable.
At Google, the 'sourcers' really didn't want to put 'not a fit' into the application tracking system (ATS) because if they did so they would not be able to call that person back if another position opened up. Inevitably applicants would say they had other people who were talking to them and would probably provide offers (I think some people think that is a useful tactic for pushing things along) and the sourcers would just cross their fingers and hoped they would take that other job, or another candidate that was a better fit would get accepted. Either way they preserve a 'possible' in their list of candidates for the future.
In my discussion with Google's recruiting folks at the time I argued that the ATS system was hurting Google because while someone might be a poor fit in one role, there may be another role where they were a superstar. I've seen it in my career many times where a change of roles completely changed the evaluation of the person doing the job. I never got very far in that discussion but did learn of the 'trick' of just not talking to them as a way of leaving them in a viable 'possible candidate' state for the next role that might come up.
One alternative is to be really clear in what you want out of someone in a role and if they don't meet the standard move them out. But that is very risky for "protected" people such as older engineers, or other races or religions. You can combat that risk by managing to a very diverse workforce but it feels to me that way too many people hire people like themselves.
At the end of the day these can be opportunities for startups to get some great talent.
Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback
#134They are especially scared to give negative feedback to candidates out of fear that it might be misinterpreted as discrimination. And this is why we can't have nice things.
That bit made no sense to me. I think the opposite is true; when given no concrete feedback, one begins to hypothesize why they were rejected, and their mind will often point them to discrimination as the reason. If one is given clear, concrete feedback ("We rejected you because you didn't come up with a simpler algorithm, and you lack experience with framework x"), there is little room for them to think they were di…
Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
While a wonderful comment, it doesn't not address OPs concerns. If they are processing things as efficiently as possible by automating, when they decide a candidate isn't a fit and click a button to not consider them for the position, why not have it automatically send out a one line email so they are aware? Or at bare minimum, automatically mail them when the position is set to closed? None of that can be claimed du…
Two main reasons: 1. You're assuming they're using an ATS with that feature, which isn't as common as you'd think. You'd be surprised how many companies track incoming candidates using spreadsheets and email. 2. Part of that "efficiency" is not actually taking the 5 extra seconds to reject candidates, but instead just ignoring rejected candidates. Think of it as leaving something read in your email inbox vs. choosing…
This is a good point, and while it's weird and a little frustrating from the outside, it's awesome from the inside:
The right time to hire is not when you're ramping something up or strapped for time and really need someone immediately. The right time to hire is when you've got someone awesome who is really interested in the job.
Keeping the req open gives you a better chance of grabbing that awesome person: whenever they are ready, the position is waiting. If you have to align the stars so that you're looking at the same time they are, you're going to miss some opportunities.
Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback
#136These types of people take rejection as an affront to all they hold dear and make it their mission to slam your company on any platform that will give them a voice.
You don't know who these people are ahead of time. Due to the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit#Bullshit_asymmetry_... you will spend way more time defending claims from people like this.
Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback
#137Not helpful and their reason has to be personal, so they just say nothing or as today were forced to make stuff up.
Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback
#138As a candidate, I've always preferred polite "thanks, but no thanks" responses in a timely manner. The other kind of feedback that I like is things like, "we need people with a different background / experience than you have." IMO, judgement feedback (you screwed up how you handle your yak shaving, or I don't think we'll get along with each other) is too subjective to be constructive. And, I get it. As someone who's…
Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
You really want to go through life thinking you’re competent at something? Honest feedback hurts but it’s how you grow. And if people cared at all about interviewees they’d give some semblance of honest feedback rather than “no thanks.”
I had to dig to get any type of feedback on my interviews, and even then it wasn't clear on what I needed to do to improve.
It may be not your fault. Or, it might have been your lucky day, not getting that job. In any case, you need to make damn sure that you know your trade.
Re: Reasons Why Job Seekers Are Not Given Feedback
#140If you say something like "You have weakness X", and they go take a class and work on X, then they might expect that they are now hirable.
You can imagine the friction that might happen when a candidate keeps going back only to hear about yet a new reason to be rejected.
Or, on the other side of the coin, you can imagine people who are good at checking boxes and working a system, but not a good fit for the position. They will knock down the reasons for rejection one after the next and eventually get hired, but they may still be a bad fit for the role. You can't test for everything perfectly during your interview process.