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Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

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Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#361

To call this rose-tinted glasses when considering how things worked in 1983 is a massive understatement. A counterexample: in 1983, enter two search terms, one of them slightly misspelled or misremembered, hit f3: "no results", spend 10 minutes trying to find the needle in the haystack, give up and physically search for the thing yourself. Enter two search terms slightly incorrectly now: no of the time it will know e…

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Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#362
post #2

Kind of related: does anyone else notice how long it takes to change channels on the TV these days? It used to be instantaneous when cable first came out and at some point it became this laggy experience where you'll press buttons on the remote and the channel takes forever to change. I hate it and it's one of the reasons I don't have cable any more.

Also navigating through the "guide" is simply horrendous.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#363
post #2

Kind of related: does anyone else notice how long it takes to change channels on the TV these days? It used to be instantaneous when cable first came out and at some point it became this laggy experience where you'll press buttons on the remote and the channel takes forever to change. I hate it and it's one of the reasons I don't have cable any more.

My favorite "the world is terrible" curmudgeon observation is how awful hotel TVs (and hotel TV remotes) are. Every single hotel room TV I've had the displeasure of using in the last N years takes more than 20 seconds to turn on after multiple button-presses, starts out on a terrible in-house channel at high volume regardless of the last-watched channel+volume, takes multiple seconds to change channels, and has no re…

In the hotels I stayed at in Europe it's usually a standard non-smart TV plus a custom board that connects to it over HDMI. Sometimes the whole thing is enclosed in some kind of plastic shroud that clips over the TV but nothing a bit of "percussive maintenance" can't fix. From there, the HDMI port is accessible.

However, in most cases, at least in mid-range rooms, the TV is barely bigger than my laptop so it just doesn't make sense to use it.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#364
post #18
post #2

Kind of related: does anyone else notice how long it takes to change channels on the TV these days? It used to be instantaneous when cable first came out and at some point it became this laggy experience where you'll press buttons on the remote and the channel takes forever to change. I hate it and it's one of the reasons I don't have cable any more.

When working on digital settop boxes a decade or 2 ago, channel change latency was one of the toughest problems. Eventually we (collectively, the whole industry) gave up and settled for 1 second as acceptable. Channel surfing quietly went away. When your i-frame only comes so often, there's not a whole lot you can do. Nowadays, that problem is solved by reducing actual live content to a strict minimum; everything els…

Can't there be a dedicated channel or connection that's always tuned to that just broadcasts I frames from all channels, so that the box has all the latest frames for all channels and can start playing instantly when switching channels?

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just recorded a two minute video me of me trying to do this. Maybe it will help you understand why people like Gravis (and myself) are frustrated. The video is at http://paste.stevelosh.com/1983.webm but it's a little blurry, so I'll narrate it. (There's a less blurry mkv at http://paste.stevelosh.com/1983.mkv for those that want it.) I go to `maps.google.com`. The page loads a search box, with my cursor focused in…

You know, the back button works in Google Maps and does exactly what you might think it does: take you back to the state you were just in . After you accidentally lost your route, you could have just used a built in feature of your browser to get yourself back to where you were. EDIT: The rest of your post was entirely accurate. Google Maps is a slow, stuttery mess on literally every platform I've ever used it on rec…

I guess years of using single page Javascript webapps where the back button is a complete shitshow has trained me to not even consider trying it. I'm impressed it actually works on Google Maps.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#366
post #356

Reading through the comments it would seem that the article is a false alarm. The count of upvotes dictates the opposite. My opinion is that the baseline for what we achieve as good (and quick) service has been slowly lift up by the industry. At the same time specific design practices were implemented to ease our frustration about slow service, and "feel" at least that the service is quick.

It's a common trend. Headline with a popular opinion says something a typical HN user is inclined to agree without even reading it, so there will be a bunch of upvotes and some "me too" comments (disguised as personal anecdotes). But those who actually clicked on the link will find a number of issues with the content of it and will tell about it here. And here we are, lots of likes and comments suggesting it isn't really worth attention.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a weird system, certainly not the standard way of doing things on a traditional cable TV system.

I think it's pretty normal these days. The cable companies sell the data on what people watch, where the rewind, pause, fast forward, etc...

No, it's absolutely not normal for a regular cable DVR to tie authorization for DVR functionality to an Internet connection.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#368

To call this rose-tinted glasses when considering how things worked in 1983 is a massive understatement. A counterexample: in 1983, enter two search terms, one of them slightly misspelled or misremembered, hit f3: "no results", spend 10 minutes trying to find the needle in the haystack, give up and physically search for the thing yourself. Enter two search terms slightly incorrectly now: no of the time it will know e…

I agree that a lot of the use cases back then were hyperspecific and the software were drag racers. However, much of what he talks about is productivity tools. I believe those fit the same description. I occasionally work with many different screens using a TN3270, some of which look very different and have very different purposes, however they have a common interface with similar keystrokes. This makes navigating even unfamiliar screens a breeze. He talks about is the commonality of keyboard language compared to that of GUI and I think that is an excellent point of his.

Check out this specific part of his postings: https://i.imgur.com/Roz80Nd.png

The main idea I got from his rant was that we have mostly lost the efficiencies that a keyboard can provide.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#369
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The central reason is that modern video codecs use I-frames and P-frames (sometimes also B-frames; even though as far as I am aware, these are not used for TV broadcasts); see https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Video_compression... I-frames are only sent, say, once or twice a second. When a channel is switched, the TV has to wait for the next I-frame, since P-frames (and B-frames) only encode the difference t…

> When a channel is switched, the TV has to wait for the next I-frame, since P-frames (and B-frames) only encode the difference to the previous I-frame (or to the previous and next I-frame in the case of B-frames). You can apply the encoded difference to a grey (or black!) screen, the way (IIRC) VLC does in such cases. This means that the user immediately gets a hint of what's happening onscreen, especially since the…

Anyone old enough to remember the revolution of interlaced GIF files on the web? ;)

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tuning chip costs maybe 50 cents or something. Just have 3 or 4 of them and pretune the next few channels.

> The tuning chip costs maybe 50 cents or something. Just have 3 or 4 of them and pretune the next few channels. That's 50 cents the shareholders can pocket, and everyone has already inured themselves to the slower experience. Isn't progress great?

50 cents per unit times several hundreds of millions of units adds up to real money in a hurry.

BOM costs make or break mass market hardware products. You don't just add 50 cents of BOM to a mass market item without a real good reason.

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