> Snowden's former work agreements with the CIA and NSA are clear that he (and any other employee) must submit the contents of books or speeches for review. I noticed that there seems to be a trend to use legal technicalities to enforce bizarre rules that completely defy the intent of the constitution. I'd be questioning whether it should be legal for any company or agency to force prospective employees to sign away…
The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits
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Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits
#102I posted this in another thread, but it didn't get much traction. It's a serious question. Isn't Snowden's book an auto-biographical memoir? Given this, is there really classified information contained in the book? Can someone who has read it give an example? I've watched Snowden's Rogan interview, where he covers the material in the book, and I don't remember anything that was classified.
Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
So read it and send Ed a dollar (or Bitcoin equiv.)
I think it's illegal to send him any money due to him being an enemy of the state.
Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits
#104I posted this in another thread, but it didn't get much traction. It's a serious question. Isn't Snowden's book an auto-biographical memoir? Given this, is there really classified information contained in the book? Can someone who has read it give an example? I've watched Snowden's Rogan interview, where he covers the material in the book, and I don't remember anything that was classified.
There is definitely some sensitive information in there. The government doesn't distinguish between classified information that is public knowledge, and still-secret classified information. Regardless, their point is that Snowden did not send the book in for approval/redaction before publishing, as would be required of any former employee of a three-letter agency writing about such things.
1. It's highly likely (you said definitely) given the person and subject that some information in the memoir is at least sensitive even if it is not classified, and there's an equally good chance there is some classified information.
2. The actual suit doesn't need the book to contain classified information, they can block it entirely based on process.
That's a good and helpful answer. It would be helpful to have substantial examples of (1).
(2) seems to be the thing that other commentators are claiming is being weaponized for soft-censorship (especially wrt Snowden not being in a position to use an internal three-letter-agency process to publish, and the fact that said three-letter-agencies would likely block publication using their internal processes).
Regarding (2) do you happen to know if there are just-the-government-following-standard-operating-proceedure and non-political examples of agencies blocking the proceeds of books/memoirs based on the process?
The example that comes to mind for me is Patraeus's memoirs - which was widely political and scandalous but still agencies did not seek to withhold profits from book sales.
Any examples of where (2) being used day-to-day as SOP?
Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits
#105Twitter thread from Snowden: https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1207624251953549312 > The government may steal a dollar, but it cannot erase the idea that earned it. I wrote this book, Permanent Record, for you, and I hope the government's ruthless desperation to prevent its publication only inspires you read it—and then gift it to another. > The court's ruling is a hack intended to circumvent First Amendment limits…
I'm sure he'll just get a huge advance on the next book and most of this will come out in the wash.
Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits
#106> Snowden's former work agreements with the CIA and NSA are clear that he (and any other employee) must submit the contents of books or speeches for review. I noticed that there seems to be a trend to use legal technicalities to enforce bizarre rules that completely defy the intent of the constitution. I'd be questioning whether it should be legal for any company or agency to force prospective employees to sign away…
Do you think that the existence of classified information is antithetical to the 1st amendment? I don't see how a nation can have secrets without being able to enforce at least some limitations on free (and commercial...) speech.
Whereas it appeareth that however certain forms of government are better calculated than others to protect individuals in the free exercise of their natural rights, and are at the same time themselves better guarded against degeneracy, yet experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms, those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny; and it is believed that the most effectual means of preventing this would be, to illuminate, as far as practicable, the minds of the people at large, and more especially to give them knowledge of those facts, which history exhibiteth, that, possessed thereby of the experience of other ages and countries, they may be enabled to know ambition under all its shapes, and prompt to exert their natural powers to defeat its purposes; And whereas it is generally true that that people will be happiest whose laws are best, and are best administered, and that laws will be wisely formed, and honestly administered, in proportion as those who form and administer them are wise and honest; whence it becomes expedient for promoting the publick happiness that those person, whom nature hath endowed with genius and virtue, should be rendered by liberal education worthy to receive, and able to guard the sacred deposit of the rights and liberties of their fellow citizens, and that they should be called to that charge without regard to wealth, birth or other accidental condition or circumstance; but the indigence of the greater number disabling them from so educating, at their own expence, those of their children whom nature hath fitly formed and disposed to become useful instruments for the public, it is better that such should be sought for and educated at the common expence of all, than that the happiness of all should be confided to the weak or wicked:...
Bill 79 was mostly about public schooling, but it contains the kernel of an argument for more open governance and against ubiquitous secrecy in language like "give them knowledge of those facts, which history exhibiteth, that, possessed thereby of the experience of other ages and countries, they may be enabled to know ambition under all its shapes, and prompt to exert their natural powers to defeat its purposes".
Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits
#107I posted this in another thread, but it didn't get much traction. It's a serious question. Isn't Snowden's book an auto-biographical memoir? Given this, is there really classified information contained in the book? Can someone who has read it give an example? I've watched Snowden's Rogan interview, where he covers the material in the book, and I don't remember anything that was classified.
It doesn't really matter, they can still use pre-publication review to jack you up by redacting even what is otherwise publicly available information and delay publication until the news cycle has moved on. The process is arbitrary and politicized, and widely considered to have become a First Amendment issue, which is not surprising, since the modern review process emerged in the 70s when the CIA was trying to mute p…
Another commentator wrote something similar here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21837795
There's a thought experiment in that thread about whether or not pulling proceeds and profit is standard operating proceedure or really arbitrarity and politically applied. Do you happen to know if there are examples of this pattern and process being applied in non-politically motivated situations?
Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you think that the existence of classified information is antithetical to the 1st amendment? I don't see how a nation can have secrets without being able to enforce at least some limitations on free (and commercial...) speech.
Classified information is antithetical to Thomas Jefferson's ideal of a well informed citizenry to whom government is ultimately responsible and accountable. He affirmed this idea throughout his political writings, but most notably in Bill 79, "A Bill for the More General Diffusion of Knowledge." Its preamble reads as follows: Whereas it appeareth that however certain forms of government are better calculated than ot…
Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits
#109A lot of people seem to think this is some kind of retaliation specifically targeted at Snowden and trying to prevent him from publishing his book. Two quick facts: - Nobody ever tried to ban his book. - The government receiving the profits of that book comes from a simple and universal rule that nobody is allowed to benefit from a crime. It's a rule that makes a lot of sense, whether you agree that person is a crimi…
When a company says something is important but then cut the legs out from underneath it, they aren't being honest. They don't actually like X, they're just trying to avoid a conflict and hoping people will just forget about it.
Demonetizing something is policy, be you government or corporate.
Re: The Feds Get Permission to Seize Edward Snowden's Book Profits
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t care about Snowden making a profit, but I do care about the first amendment. The government is not allowed to impose a fine on speech they don’t like. That is not “free speech”.
NDA enforcement is not at odds with the first amendment. Thousands of them are signed every day, and they hold up just like any other contract.
This isn't ordinary NDA enforcement, it's enforcement of a prior restraint on speech. With a normal NDA, if you publish information you're not supposed to, they can go to court and prove that the information was covered by the NDA and then get an order to stop you from continuing to publish it or sue you for damages.
In this case they haven't proved that anything in the book was actually subject to the NDA and they're objecting because they didn't get to review it before publication. But you can reasonably expect any government "review" in this context to be an effort to unreasonably delay or otherwise interfere with publication of the book, even if there is no legitimate cause.
The difference is that they would otherwise have to prove the contents of the book was in violation of the NDA. Without that they could suppress the book even if it wasn't. That might not be constitutional and there are a lot of good policy reasons for it not to be.
This would be a lot more obvious if they were seeking to restrain publication, so they're looking for a backdoor, and trying to get there by taking the money. But that should fail for the same reason Son of Sam laws are unconstitutional. Writing and publishing a book takes time and money which the person who wants to write it generally can't get without the expectation of recovering it after publication. You don't have time to write a book if you can't get an advance and thereby have to spend all your time working some other job to put food on the table. Which can cause the book not to be written and the readers would be denied the information.
It's as much about the right of the readers to pay someone to tell the story and thereby ensure the story gets told, as it is the right of the storyteller to make a buck.