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Re: undefined

#31
I find the way the FBI acted really puzzling. I find it difficult to believe they evaluated the consequences to the agency of using the FISA court to obtain warrants on campaign related people during an election. How did they believe this was going to play out? If the investigation ever led to prosecutions they would find it difficult to hide to a court that evidence was procured from FISA warrants. So it seems the only reasonable outcome where this would remain secret was if their investigation was a failure. Also, it is important to note that someone in the government did the completely retarded thing of leaking the FISA warrant on Page. This wasn't done to whistleblow on the warrant but presumably in order to either hurt the Trump campaign or rally public support for an investigation.

Before the election the Republican's held the house and were likely to hold it again. If it became public that there was FISA surveillance related to Republican campaign you would have to expect a House investigation. There was also a chance that Trump would be elected. You would assume if he was elected there would also be an executive investigation into the FISA surveillance which is what we see from the OIG and now the DOJ via Durham.

There are going to be very strong incentives for these investigations to try and dig up anything that would look like foul play. Even if you try and do everything by the book you risk burning what is presumably a useful investigative tool. I can't see how the next best option which would be try and get sealed warrants from a normal court is so much poorer that this loss would offset all the political risk.

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#32

This article is total garbage and will make you stupider for reading it. 1. Flawed warrant applications were made 2. Those flawed warrants revealed a criminal conspiracy at the highest levels of a presidential campaign, that has sent many people to prison. It is documented very well in the Mueller report. Further good background is the Crowdstrike report on the DNC hack. This is gaslighting of the worst kind. The pro…

Come on people, are we really still this blind to everything that has been going on? And "that has sent many people to prison"... Really???? No it hasn't and there hasn't been a criminal act, much less a criminal conspiracy uncovered. I get it you hate Trump, but this shit should scare you.

What do you mean by "No it hasn't"? I believe the parent is talking about: Manfort, Cohen, Papadopoulos, Gates, Flynn, and Stone. Are you saying they weren't sent to prison, or that the FBI investigation wasn't responsible for them going?

Re, for example: https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/15/politics/trump-associates-con...

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#33
post #3

Both things can be true: * There are some rotten things at the FBI that should be fixed. * Russians interfered with our elections in 2016, and will keep attempting to do so. I don't get why he's so in the tank for Russia.

> Russians interfered with our elections in 2016 This line implies two totally different things and has been used by politicians and biased medias to mislead the public. One thing is Russians interfered the elections in 2016 by buying ads and spreading misinformation, which did happen. The other thing is Russians interfered the elections in 2016 by working with the Trump campaign. There is no evidence for this even a…

the Trump campaign took the information from the DNC leak and ran with it at top speed. they benefited massively from it. "not working" with them would instead have meant they reported the efforts by Russian agents to meet with them to the FBI immediately, rather than actually meeting with them and asking for what illegally acquired dirt they had.

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#34
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the supposed evidence of Russian interference at all dependent on these false FBI claims?

No, all 17 intelligence agencies confirmed Russia meddled in the 2016 election. The Republican minority report from the House intelligence committee also agrees Russia meddled in the 2016 election.

My understanding, and I confess I haven't followed things very closely, is that the Russia meddling claim is somehow connected with the current impeachment of Trump. True? If so, does this report on the FBI at all relate to said impeachment?

As an aside, I have absolutely no idea why Trump is being impeached. Every time I open Google News all the top headlines are "Impeach Trump!". But I never see anything about why exactly he is being impeached. Granted, I haven't really read any of these articles, more than just skimming, but I'd expect at least something in the title or summary that I see in Google News. Very bizarre thing going on. When Clinton was impeached it was very clear it was related to Monica Lewinsky and lying under oath. But regarding Trump, I mostly just see articles about who wants him impeached. Nothing about why. Anyone know the particular reason Trump is being impeached? What law he violated?

UPDATE: I googled it, and someone claims he pressured Ukraine to investigate Biden's son. Perhaps impeachable, but not obviously so. I guess that's why the reason is not more widely promoted, since on the face of it does not sound particularly egregious, compared to what other presidents have done.

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#35
post #34
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, all 17 intelligence agencies confirmed Russia meddled in the 2016 election. The Republican minority report from the House intelligence committee also agrees Russia meddled in the 2016 election.

My understanding, and I confess I haven't followed things very closely, is that the Russia meddling claim is somehow connected with the current impeachment of Trump. True? If so, does this report on the FBI at all relate to said impeachment? As an aside, I have absolutely no idea why Trump is being impeached. Every time I open Google News all the top headlines are "Impeach Trump!". But I never see anything about why…

> I haven't followed things very closely, is that the Russia meddling claim is somehow connected with the current impeachment of Trump.

No.

You could read the articles of impeachment themselves if you want to inform yourself: https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2019/12/politics/impeach...

"It is absolutely illegal for anyone to solicit, accept, or receive anything of value from a foreign national in connection with any election in the United States."

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#36
post #2

I agree. To think that those kind of actions were so mishandled on the most high profile FBI investigation in decades is completely horrifying. Not to even mention the falsifying of evidence. If they do that to someone as high profile as Trump how much chicanery happens with cases involving everyday people. As an aside, Glen Greenwald is in my opinion one of the last remaining true journalists that hasn't been overco…

[flagged]

Re: undefined

#37

This article is total garbage and will make you stupider for reading it. 1. Flawed warrant applications were made 2. Those flawed warrants revealed a criminal conspiracy at the highest levels of a presidential campaign, that has sent many people to prison. It is documented very well in the Mueller report. Further good background is the Crowdstrike report on the DNC hack. This is gaslighting of the worst kind. The pro…

The criminal conspiracy was very well documented in the Mueller report? As Greenwald says in the first sentence, no American was charged with conspiracy/collusion/coordination with Russia. All the people sent to prison are for process crimes or unrelated matters (Manafort). Hell, Roger Stone is going to prison for lying that he was part of a conspiracy with Wikileaks, when in fact he was making that up!

Re: undefined

#38

This article is total garbage and will make you stupider for reading it. 1. Flawed warrant applications were made 2. Those flawed warrants revealed a criminal conspiracy at the highest levels of a presidential campaign, that has sent many people to prison. It is documented very well in the Mueller report. Further good background is the Crowdstrike report on the DNC hack. This is gaslighting of the worst kind. The pro…

Greenwald has at least been consistent in his antagonism toward the state intelligence and law enforcement apparatus.

It's unfortunate that that aligns him, now, with the gross political opportunism of a group of people who generally DO support an invasive government intelligence and law enforcement--as long as it is working in their favor.

Now that it is in their interest to publicly attack this apparatus, they happily do so. As soon as it's working for them again, they'll wrap themselves in FBI hats and American flags again.

One wants to say to Greenwald: "Read the room, man! You're supporting people who oppose your beliefs and would happily throw you in jail!"

But of course a big part of being Greenwald being Greenwald is he sticks to his guns no matter how the room reads.

Re: undefined

#39

I find the way the FBI acted really puzzling. I find it difficult to believe they evaluated the consequences to the agency of using the FISA court to obtain warrants on campaign related people during an election. How did they believe this was going to play out? If the investigation ever led to prosecutions they would find it difficult to hide to a court that evidence was procured from FISA warrants. So it seems the o…

My guess is: They never seriously considered the possibility that they'd get caught.

Nobody thought Trump was going to win, the Senate was expected to go blue, and House Republican control notwithstanding, that probably drove a lot of their internal, err, can I call it optimism? And if everyone involved believed there was something there to find, it's easy to understand why they'd just keep pushing, figuring that once they found something concrete, the methods used to get there would get lost in the noise.

I'm just speculating, but this may have played out rather differently had Trump had a two-digit lead for most of the run-up to the election.

Anyway, if I'm right that they justified their actions because they were never expected to see daylight, that's particularly scary because it suggests that maybe this behavior is standard operating procedure. Invent fake dirt on your perp and hand it to the FISA court, use the FISA warrant to get the real dirt on your perp, do some parallel construction, and you're golden! They've got carte blanche, as long as (a) they get their guy or (b) their guy doesn't have any power to come back at them. Yuck. That sort of thing can be dangerous to a democracy.

Re: undefined

#40

This article is total garbage and will make you stupider for reading it. 1. Flawed warrant applications were made 2. Those flawed warrants revealed a criminal conspiracy at the highest levels of a presidential campaign, that has sent many people to prison. It is documented very well in the Mueller report. Further good background is the Crowdstrike report on the DNC hack. This is gaslighting of the worst kind. The pro…

Check your wording.

There was no "criminal conspiracy".

These were all criminal individuals acting criminally, and not in concert to achieve anything together.

Their crimes indeed indicate this.

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