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Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

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Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#191

Post by throwGuardian »

kabdib wrote: post #72

I had an Atari ST in a closet, and decided to get rid of it a while back. I pulled it out to test it. The boot sequence, all the way to a desktop with a mouse that moves, takes less than one second. If you boot from a hard drive, maybe another second. For a while I just kept hitting the reset button, marveling at the speed at which the ST came up. Most machines I work with these days take minutes to get rolling. Okay…

An SSD can make a world of difference. Most of the time spent during boot up is in executing random reads (of about 4Kb size) from storage, and SSDs are a factor of magnitude faster there

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#192

Post by PaulHoule »

frobozz wrote: post #128
sonofaplum wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think that use case is that common? And why do you think google maps should elevate that particular use case above other competing use cases?

I have not conducted a survey, but they strike me as reasonably common desires. On a 4-5 hour road trip, I want to take the kids to see a castle or something somewhere around 1/2 to 3/4 of the way. Even just wanting to have lunch somewhere other than Hilton Park or Newport Pagnell would be such a use case. I have also wanted it for visiting someone - I'm going to their house, what is my most convenient option for buy…

I think there is an anti-car bias in Google Maps and similar services.

Everything is oriented around the model of "reserve a hotel", "reserve a flight", like you really are on rails like a European.

Today's online maps aren't up to the freedom that motorists have to make small deviations from a route. For instance if I drive from here to Boston I am likely to stay at a hotel en-route, that could be anywhere from Albany to Worcester. I don't have strong feelings about where, but it might be nice to find a good deal or find a place that I think is cool.

Thus I am interested in searching along a tube around my route, not clicking on cities like Springfield and running a search at each one.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#194

Post by ktm5j »

> one of the things that makes me steaming mad is how the entire field of web apps ignores 100% of learned lessons from desktop apps

I can't agree with this enough. The whole of web development in general really grinds my gears these days. Stacking one half-baked technology on top of another, using at least 3 different languages to crap out a string of html that then gets rendered by a browser. Using some node module for every small task, leaving yourself with completely unauditable interdependent code that could be hijacked by a rogue developer at any moment. And to top it all off now we're using things like Electron to make "native" apps for phones and desktops.

It seems so ass-backwards. This current model is wasteful of computing resources and provides a generally terrible user experience. And it just seems to get worse as time passes. :/

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#195

Post by sangnoir »

PostPost wrote: post #44
sonofaplum wrote: post #20

There are some good points here, but of course I am going to ignore those to talk instead about the stuff I disagree with! The section about google maps follows a form of criticism that is widespread and particularly annoys me, namely => popular service 'x' doesn't exactly fit my power user need 'y', therefore x is hopelessly borked, poorly designed, and borderline useless. There is always room for improvement, but a…

The example for maps is not a "hyper specific use case": "The process you WANT: pick your start and end. now start searching for places in between. Your start and end are saved. When you find someplace interesting, add it to your list. Keep doing that, keep searching and adding." That's a common use case. The problem with Google maps (and the problem with a lot of modern software) is, as you say, it makes a lot of gu…

> The process you WANT: pick your start and end. now start searching for places in between. Your start and end are saved. When you find someplace interesting, add it to your list. Keep doing that, keep searching and adding

Am I missing something - this use-case is already supported! You choose start & endpoints, then your start the trip (which "saves" them) - you can now search and add as many waypoints as you desire

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#196

Post by normalnorm »

ineedasername wrote: post #175
normalnorm wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> popular service 'x' doesn't exactly fit my power user need 'y', therefore x is hopelessly borked, poorly designed, and borderline useless. So you are telling me that wanting to see the name of a given street without having to zoom 10000x (and even then sometimes...) or figuring out how to get the directions to and from somewhere are "power users needs"? Give me a break. Google maps was way easier to user as a map b…

Getting directions is simple. Even the author doesn't take issue with that specific functionality. And I've never had an issue with Google maps hiding street names when there was ample room to show them, but if you're more than a little zoomed out, there isn't that room. Showing only major roads is a decent trade off, as is the mouse scroll wheel for zoom in/out. Or maybe it's my own failure of imagination: how would…

> Getting directions is simple. Even the author doesn't take issue with that specific functionality.

Yes he does. You touch anything and state is erased. Don't know exactly which one of the search results you want to go to? Tough shit, the interface works against you.

And still, getting directions used to be simpler. Now you have to decipher unlabeled hieroglyphs, and the interface keeps changing. You can't even get used to it. You are constantly being nudged to do shit that is not what you really want to do, such as "exploring your neighborhood".

> And I've never had an issue with Google maps hiding street names when there was ample room to show them, but if you're more than a little zoomed out, there isn't that room. Showing only major roads is a decent trade off, as is the mouse scroll wheel for zoom in/out.

Luck you, I guess. I have this problem all the time. A better trade off: if I searched for "Market Street", show that label! That would be a start. And frequently labels aren't shown even when there is plenty of space.

Oh, and why not show the scale of the map by default? Is this also a "power user" feature? I thought it was a crucial piece of information when reading a map...

> Or maybe it's my own failure of imagination: how would you improve in this particular area?

Easy. Revert to the interface circa 2010. It had none of the above problems.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#198

Post by StavrosK »

eitland wrote: post #173
jakelazaroff wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is all much worse on the Android app as well, where it makes the assumption that your use case is to get from where you are right now to somewhere else. That strikes me as a fantastic assumption. I wonder what percentage of routes involve the user’s current location? I bet it’s high!

Yep. But it used to be even better when it made that assumption clear by adding a pre-filled box with your current location. It just worked for the default case but when you needed something else it was straightforward to do that.

Doesn't it? It gives me two boxes, "current location" and "destination" and I can change either.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#199

Post by arpa »

So you hate the mouse. Mouse is an benevolent dictator. It tries to help. You want to know who Stalin is? Fucking touchscreens. You're blind? Fuck you. You have Parkinsons? Off to the death camp you go. You want to type in your pocket while paying zero attention to the poison screen which is taken up by half by an idiotic keyboard on which you will continuously mistype and be moronically autocorrected to a point where you WILL LONG FOR THE GOOD OLD DAYS OF TYPING WITH T9 - enjoy the bullet to the back of your head you sexual deviant. You will drag, pinch, stretch, lick the glossy oh-so-fragile glass screen, you will fucking obey the tech giants that want your eyes glued to the screen so you can see more ads until you lose it and start loving the uncaring big brother and all the pain you are brought from him. Mice are evil. Pshaw.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#200

Post by MadWombat »

"amber-screen library computer in 1998: type in two words and hit F3. search results appear instantly"

Bullshit. The search results appear instantly if you are searching a small text file in an editor. But if your app is actually fetching the data from somewhere, a dBase database on a network disk mounted from a Netware server, good luck. You type your words, you hit the search key and then you wait. There is no indication that anything is actually happening, no spinning things, not progress indicator, nothing. You cannot do anything while you wait either (multitasking is not a thing in DOS, remember?), you just sit and wait there hoping for the best.

And this is an application that is trying to keyword search few megabytes of data over a local network. Not an application doing a fuzzy search on hundreds of terabytes of data across half a planet...

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