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Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

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Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#141
post #92
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted it, but I have mixed feelings about it. I agree with the overall sentiment that it's ludicrous how much slower everything feels on computers these days: we're able to do more complex things than ever, which is great, but it's hard to rationalize why even the simple things that we've been doing forever have become so sluggish. My first job out of college was to migrate an internal inventory management system…

I feel like a large part of the unintuitiveness of keyboard interfaces is not actually an intrinsic quality of keyboard interfaces since they're so often conflated with command-line or TUI interfaces. There might be an alternative but yet undiscovered paradigm which combines the best of both worlds: keyboard control and intuitive, beautiful, graphical widgets. To motivate this with a somewhat blunt example, what if w…

>To motivate this with a somewhat blunt example, what if we had a typical GUI but named each control (button, field, etc) with a short code (1-2 letters), in the style of Vimperator/Tridactyl/Vimium?

Excel basically does this. If you hold down alt it hovers the companion hotkey above each function on the ribbon. It is very handy for learning your way around.

I think this is actually the big challenge with keyboard interfaces is that there is a learning curve. The advantage of mouse (or even mores touchscreens) is that a literal monkey can figure it out. But they're also limited in what they can do and how quickly they can do it. Meanwhile, keyboard based inputs take some time to learn but become extremely powerful once you're adept at them. But for non-power users who aren't that comfortable navigating a computer, it can feel like trying to learn a musical instrument for them. We nerds can flit from one interface to another because a lot of the general mechanics and muscle memory can carry over. But for people who haven't trained that skill it's much harder to learn these things, similar to playing video games. People who have never done it have no clue what they're doing when you put a controller in their hands.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#143
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: yes. Rewrote half of it. The thing with Google Maps was that it was actually reasonably good and intuitive on mobile until sometime 5 or 7 years ago when someone decided it had to be "simplified". The old version was easy: you enter "to" and "from", and it gives you a route. I think it also had multiple entry points so you could choose "navigate", "browse" and "timeline" or something directly from the system me…

Performance has also degraded disastrously. My phone is kind of a dinosaur at this point (Galaxy 7), but the lag when scrolling around the map is seconds, and elements delay-load so that misclicks are constant.

Changed to an iPhone XR a few weeks ago. The cheap model of iPhone and it still feels way faster than the my latest androids, including Samsung S7 edge and other flagship phones (and yes, I bought them new).

I've stuck with Android until now, but now that I can replace the keyboard on iPhone I gave it a chance and I'm super happy with it.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#144
post #2

Kind of related: does anyone else notice how long it takes to change channels on the TV these days? It used to be instantaneous when cable first came out and at some point it became this laggy experience where you'll press buttons on the remote and the channel takes forever to change. I hate it and it's one of the reasons I don't have cable any more.

I don't know who can afford cable any more to be honest. The only people I know who pay for cable are in the 45+ age range and they only use it because they just leave it on 24x7 or to watch the weather.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#145

This is a very hard rant to read. The examples either aren't factually true or are poorly explained and the "solution" is largely nebulous. I feel like this topic has merit and with a well written article with real examples (both 2019 and 83) it could be something special, but this isn't that. I'd be interested to know how many upvoted based on the title/what they expected this to be, rather than after having tried t…

I appreciated his complaints, but not his solution. Only a programmer would think that going back to keyboards is a good idea. Most people are happy waiting for a few seconds for their webpage to load, if it means they can do it without learning anything new. Programming is a profession, and we design software for people who have other interests than software. Many of us would be better off if we got better at empath…

> Only a programmer would think that going back to keyboards is a good idea.

He goes too far and his suggestions are nebulous.

But it sure would be nice to go back somewhat to the keyboard.

There are so many apps with broken tab-orders; so many common operations without common shortcuts; so many badly tuned completion engines; bad interactions with autofill, etc. There's a whole lot of stuff that I could do faster on the keyboard, but I am being constantly trained to not dare assuming I can fly through and the right things will happen. In any application that I am not positive will do the "right things", I am slow and tentative.

It's bad for accessibility, too. A vision deficit or dexterity deficit impacts mouse use harshly.

We need to go back to making the keyboard experience good. Not just in individual applications, but across the board. While we're at it, we should realize that being too free in design choices has negative impacts to user. There was a time that Apple really cared about this stuff, for instance, and usability on Apples excelled because you knew that there was a lot of effort in the developer community to do the right things and conform to common standards.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

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post #135
post #115

This seems to be conflating several separate problems 1) I can't manipulate data in my resultset well enough in google map. 2) Searches are too slow. 3) Mousing is bad. Now, you can argue that those are related. The first two are an argument for moving away from full-page post/response applications to SPA-style applications where the data is all in browser memory and as you manipulate it you're doing stuff on the cli…

Mousing is bad. It really is a cumbersome tool. I do a lot with my workspaces so that I can avoid using it.

I never disagreed with that.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#148
post #94

There are some good points here, but of course I am going to ignore those to talk instead about the stuff I disagree with! The section about google maps follows a form of criticism that is widespread and particularly annoys me, namely => popular service 'x' doesn't exactly fit my power user need 'y', therefore x is hopelessly borked, poorly designed, and borderline useless. There is always room for improvement, but a…

Google has an alternate interface to maps called "My Maps"[1] with the kind of editing and composition features the author misses. I use it all the time to make maps for road trips with lots of points of interest and complicated routes. [1] https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/

I tried mymaps some time ago, but there was no way (or i couldn't figure it out) to have gmaps use it for navigation. The two seemed to be quite separate products.

Re: Almost everything on computers is perceptually slower than it was in 1983 (2017)

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The example for maps is not a "hyper specific use case": "The process you WANT: pick your start and end. now start searching for places in between. Your start and end are saved. When you find someplace interesting, add it to your list. Keep doing that, keep searching and adding." That's a common use case. The problem with Google maps (and the problem with a lot of modern software) is, as you say, it makes a lot of gu…

Why do you think that use case is that common? And why do you think google maps should elevate that particular use case above other competing use cases?

Selecting/Creating waypoints has been a digital mapping-feature of every service/tool I have used since digital mapping/navigation became a thing. From garmin hand-held off-road GPS topo navigation systems to units used for fishing to hiking/biking.

It has been a cornerstone of digital navigation since the things were invented. To claim that it's an edge-case ignores history and instead highlights how _you_ use the tools.

IMHO it was more obvious that Google wants to you 'actively search' for $waypoint item while enroute instead of pre-planning. "hey google, show me restaurants near me"

That gives them a better way to monopolize on advertising and forced $ from companies in order to stay relevant and appear in those type of searches.

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