I like how the conservative BBC, writing from a country whose murder rate is double that of the Netherlands, is trying to hype up violence Amsterdam because they don't like drugs. What a bunch of shit.
[deleted]
Is the Netherlands becoming a narco-state?
51–60 of 80 posts
Re: Is the Netherlands becoming a narco-state?
#52Huh, maybe mass immigration of culturally distinct impoverished and unskilled young men isn't a good policy after all...
If the unskilled young men were left in their home country, they would still be unskilled for the rest of their lives. But, by bringing them in we are not only teaching them how to be more skilled, but also teaching our society how to more efficiently take unskilled workers and bring them up to a highly skilled workers who can live a middle class life style like you or me. This is because the more you focus on someth…
> If the unskilled young men were left in their home country, they would still be unskilled for the rest of their lives.
Most people involved in these groups are either second or third generation children of immigrants who specifically came for work which was available in the late 50's, 60's and early 70's which were specifically targeted since there was a major lack of available manpower due to fast economic growth and reduced workforce (since there was a small war a decade or so ago). Unskilled maybe but they definitely had work.
Re: Is the Netherlands becoming a narco-state?
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
>everybody who know how to recognize them will see them popup everywhere. Just out of curiosity, what are the tells for a drug dealer in Amsterdam? Asking for a friend.
Black (or of African descent), alert, hands in hoodie's pockets, locking gazes, and trying to understand the message in your gaze. Usually everyone's moving except them (except people on their phones), when they move it's back and forth within a short distance. Before you scream: "Racist!" I'm black (African, to be precise). I'm describing my experience in several places in Germany (where I live), Prague, and Amsterd…
These are just runners. A significant portion of the (Amsterdam) drug trade is handled by the so-called mocro-maffia, a group of predominantly Moroccan-descended criminals. Much of the Dutch production is however commonly in Dutch hands.
Re: Is the Netherlands becoming a narco-state?
#54Answer: no. Not by any real definition of a narco-state[1]. There is a lot of drug trafficking/production, but there is no meaningful infiltration into the official institutions/government. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narco-state
The reason for people being upset is not the drug usage, which is actually not much of an issue (arguably less so than in other countries). The local drug policies actually work in preventing that from becoming an epidemic issue like elsewhere.
The real reason is the high profile violent murders of witnesses, lawyers, etc. associated with trials of high profile criminals with Moroccan roots. This particular minority has been the focus of populist politicians for decades because of the much higher crime rates in that community (compared to other minorities). Murders and assassinations are of course not specific to that minority. Recently, re-convicted Willem Holleder (famous for his part in kidnapping Freddie Heineken in the eighties) is basically in jail for ordering the liquidation of several of his criminal partners. Unlike his Moroccon colleagues he's somewhat of a celebrity and has been for decades.
In any case drug production and export is of course illegal but not considered much of a problem as long as people don't go about machine gunning each other down. I'm not a user of any of this stuff but if other people want to take some pills, smoke some weed, or snort some cocaine that's fine with me. I doubt it's very good for you but most people doing this seem to not end up being homeless drug addicts. The ones that do tend to have psychological issues. Decriminalizing them seems like a humane thing to do. In any case, legalizing this stuff so people don't have to engage with and enrich hardcore criminals would probably be a good thing. Like it or not, this is a multi billion dollar business and it's not going away.
Re: Is the Netherlands becoming a narco-state?
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
> lawyers are being killed in the streets I mean... that happened once.
Derk Wiersum, Philippe Schol recently. I lost track of the number of recusations. The professional club has openend a hotline for judges and laywers in case of threats (which largely go unreported in the media for obvious reasons) [1]. This all is unprecedented. [1] https://www.advocatenorde.nl/nieuws/contactpunt-beroepsgroep...
I stand somewhat corrected. There was indeed just one lawyer killed in the, Derk, while Philippe was only shot in the leg.
Either way, this is terrifying and would have never expected this in the Netherlands.
Re: Is the Netherlands becoming a narco-state?
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh cmon. I live in Europe and I'm all for legalizing drugs, all drugs, but only a few popular drugs come to my mind which are more harmful then MDMA... Americans can talk about how harmful fake MDMA is and how you can manage risk better if it's legal. But anyone living in Europe, where there's loads of high quality stuff selling for a few euros per dose, and socialising with other users can easily see the harm it doe…
I think you're confusing MDMA and ecstasy. Most non-users think they're the same thing, when, in reality, they're like tea and Nestea: MDMA is the main component of XTC pills, but they often also have MDA, 2CB, amphetamine, methamphetamine, mephedrone and other components inside, which break through habitual users tolerance, but also significantly raise neurotoxicity and hangover. Pure crystal MDMA is much less toxic…
Yes, although many ecstacy pills tested in the Netherlands consistently show that they have very high purity in terms of the MDMA content and almost never contain the other things you mentioned bar some occassional exceptions (like the PMMA containing pills, which is ofcourse very dangerous).
Re: Is the Netherlands becoming a narco-state?
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Derk Wiersum, Philippe Schol recently. I lost track of the number of recusations. The professional club has openend a hotline for judges and laywers in case of threats (which largely go unreported in the media for obvious reasons) [1]. This all is unprecedented. [1] https://www.advocatenorde.nl/nieuws/contactpunt-beroepsgroep...
I stand somewhat corrected. There was indeed just one lawyer killed in the, Derk, while Philippe was only shot in the leg. Either way, this is terrifying and would have never expected this in the Netherlands.
Most liquidations (attempts) are indeed other criminals, so far, but also that number is rising. A somewhat dated (2016) timeline from Amsterdam newspaper Het Parool [1].
The scary thing is that the Netherlands basically doesnt have major crimes units. There a good forensics bureau, which is also under heavy strain [2], and a small department at the National Police. That makes is trivial for hardened criminals to stay under the radar: there is (almost) no radar.
[1] https://www.parool.nl/nieuws/tijdlijn-de-vete-in-de-marokkaa... [2] https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/07/13/nfi-onderzocht-wegens-v...
Re: Is the Netherlands becoming a narco-state?
#58I hope XTC gets legalized in the Netherlands as soon as possible. One of the ruling parties (D66) is currently investigating a proposal to do so. We are a very large producer (the largest?) and the stuff is not harmful enough to warrant the prohibition and all of the crime it entails.
MDMA can be incredibly harmful, especially when used frequently.
Only with poor education or poor quality drugs.
Re: Is the Netherlands becoming a narco-state?
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
I stand somewhat corrected. There was indeed just one lawyer killed in the, Derk, while Philippe was only shot in the leg. Either way, this is terrifying and would have never expected this in the Netherlands.
Most liquidations (attempts) are indeed other criminals, so far, but also that number is rising. A somewhat dated (2016) timeline from Amsterdam newspaper Het Parool [1]. The scary thing is that the Netherlands basically doesnt have major crimes units. There a good forensics bureau, which is also under heavy strain [2], and a small department at the National Police. That makes is trivial for hardened criminals to sta…
This saddens me deeply. The Netherlands is my favorite country.
Is this something that concerns people around you? Is it like a major shock to everybody?
Re: Is the Netherlands becoming a narco-state?
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the unskilled young men were left in their home country, they would still be unskilled for the rest of their lives. But, by bringing them in we are not only teaching them how to be more skilled, but also teaching our society how to more efficiently take unskilled workers and bring them up to a highly skilled workers who can live a middle class life style like you or me. This is because the more you focus on someth…
One could also say that having an abundance of a cheap, low quality resource, steers the economy into exploiting it instead of learning to use better alternatives. In the case of low-skilled immigrant workers, this means not being forced to improve processes and technologies, because you can rely on a lot of cheap, unskilled manual labour. Same logic, and I think a little bit less far-fetched than yours.
I didn't say economy, I said society. Society has a responsibility to take care of the people who live there. The capitalist economy would as soon leave them to rot, as take care of them.