Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground • Hacker News Board

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#91

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 9:16 AM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #78

hiram112 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just the religious right that pushes for backwards prostitution laws. It is also... feminists. Aren't feminists always going on about "my body, my right" when it comes to abortion and other forms of contraceptives? Of course, but when it comes to prostitution, they seem to take a 'differing' view. Why? When prostitution is decriminalized, the price of sex goes down, as would be expected in any market where t…

Some feminists surely do, but conflating some with all is a fallacy of composition that hinders discussion. Your reasoning in the rest of the comment seems rather questionable and veers into seeming even more like a generalization.

[deleted]

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#92

Post by arcticbull » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 9:21 AM UTC

scarejunba wrote: post #46

hiram112 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just the religious right that pushes for backwards prostitution laws. It is also... feminists. Aren't feminists always going on about "my body, my right" when it comes to abortion and other forms of contraceptives? Of course, but when it comes to prostitution, they seem to take a 'differing' view. Why? When prostitution is decriminalized, the price of sex goes down, as would be expected in any market where t…

You don’t need complex market forces. It is fairly common for people to disallow other people from doing things: * for their own good * for perceived externalities This is common enough for drugs, heavy metal, child employment, and contracting that it doesn’t surprise me they would apply it to prostitution. In fact, I think the probability of women wanting to corner the market for sex is low.

For context, I'm a left-wing Canadian socialist.

1. Drugs should all be legal as Portugal's legalization of all drugs has shown us the war on drugs is a massive boondoggle. [1] So has Canada's legalization of marijuana.

2. Child employment is legislated on the basis that children aren't able to make their own decisions, and that sounds ok.

3. Heavy metals, I assume you don't mean the music, is regulated to protect the welfare of the entire population.

4. Contracting?

> I think the probability of women wanting to corner the market for sex is low.

I can't think of a single reason to legislate consenting adults exchanging money for sex. It's not for me, but as with the war on drugs, the medicine is so much worse than the cure it's time we dropped it. The only thing harmed by regulated, clean and safe prostitution is property value and puritanical sensibilities.

Especially when scientists taught monkeys the value of money and they first thing they did was exchange it for sex. [2] That might be the most fitting epitaph for humanity yet, actually haha.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radic...

[2] https://www.zmescience.com/research/how-scientists-tught-mon...

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#93

Post by scarejunba » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 9:31 AM UTC

arcticbull wrote: post #92

scarejunba wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need complex market forces. It is fairly common for people to disallow other people from doing things: * for their own good * for perceived externalities This is common enough for drugs, heavy metal, child employment, and contracting that it doesn’t surprise me they would apply it to prostitution. In fact, I think the probability of women wanting to corner the market for sex is low.

For context, I'm a left-wing Canadian socialist. 1. Drugs should all be legal as Portugal's legalization of all drugs has shown us the war on drugs is a massive boondoggle. [1] So has Canada's legalization of marijuana. 2. Child employment is legislated on the basis that children aren't able to make their own decisions, and that sounds ok. 3. Heavy metals, I assume you don't mean the music, is regulated to protect th…

Yeah, I'm sure you have these opinions, but lots of people with a high care index (in the Moral Foundations Theory sense) and low liberty index believe that we can't let people do things because they're going to harm themselves and they're incapable of making the tradeoffs. I meant heavy metal, as in the music. Contracting, like in AB5 in California. Etc. etc.

It doesn't really matter. It is common among those on the left who conform to that high-care/low-liberty set (of which there are many) to infantilize people, remove any agency they have, and then claim to be protecting them. You don't need to invent this twisted "women want to corner the market for sex" crap to justify it. You just need people who think "oh no, those prostitutes must be doing it because they're forced; let's ban that"

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#94

Post by Thorentis » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 9:31 AM UTC

paulgb wrote: post #30

jrochkind1 wrote: post #22

You mean exactly how sex workers said it would, but nobody listened to them, because it was never actually about protecting sex workers or victims of sex trafficking? https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sex-workers-bill-fosta-sesta_... https://medium.com/voices/while-america-gawks-at-stormy-dani...

It was so infuriating to watch Democrats willingly get played by the religious right into supporting something that was so blatantly designed to legislate morality rather than actually help victims of trafficking. Glad that elected officials are now rethinking it, at least.

> designed to legislate morality

Like... almost all other laws?

Do you think murder is immoral? Well guess what? There's a law for that. Just because you disagree with the morality being legislated, you can't pretend that "legislating morality" is the problem.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#95

Post by chrischen » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 9:33 AM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #94

paulgb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was so infuriating to watch Democrats willingly get played by the religious right into supporting something that was so blatantly designed to legislate morality rather than actually help victims of trafficking. Glad that elected officials are now rethinking it, at least.

> designed to legislate morality Like... almost all other laws? Do you think murder is immoral? Well guess what? There's a law for that. Just because you disagree with the morality being legislated, you can't pretend that "legislating morality" is the problem.

Call me sociopath but murder is impractical in a functioning society. Outside of society, such as wars, it’s totally morally acceptable.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#96

Post by cameronbrown » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 9:33 AM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #94

paulgb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was so infuriating to watch Democrats willingly get played by the religious right into supporting something that was so blatantly designed to legislate morality rather than actually help victims of trafficking. Glad that elected officials are now rethinking it, at least.

> designed to legislate morality Like... almost all other laws? Do you think murder is immoral? Well guess what? There's a law for that. Just because you disagree with the morality being legislated, you can't pretend that "legislating morality" is the problem.

I think they mean: Laws codify common morals. They are not themselves morals.

Pushing this underground will hurt nothing but victims in the long run. Is that moral? Of course not.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#97

Post by chrischen » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 9:34 AM UTC

afarrell wrote: post #88

dgzl wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm more curious about people who still think Democrats and Republicans are so different from each other

They pass notably different types of bills and are reliant on different sets of key supporters.

There’s definitely a cross section of highly biased and partisan supporters that could have swung either direction at some point in their life if they had hung out with different people.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#98

Post by catalogia » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 9:38 AM UTC

a483838 wrote: post #19

As someone who spent over a decade in the adult industry BackPage was extremely responsible. They had a staff of 70 people dedicated to reporting suspicious ads to police. They were the #1 source of trafficking tips. Another socially responsible escort ad site was owned by a woman (former sex worker) and was forced to sell to a very shady eastern european gentlemen who is referred to as the trafficking king of europe…

> Another socially responsible escort ad site was owned by a woman (former sex worker) and was forced to sell to a very shady eastern european gentlemen who is referred to as the trafficking king of europe. She sold because she didn’t want to go to jail.

Was shutting it down somehow not an option? Better to shut it down than to give it to a gangster.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#99

Post by 0xBA5ED » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 9:45 AM UTC

Thorentis wrote: post #94

paulgb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was so infuriating to watch Democrats willingly get played by the religious right into supporting something that was so blatantly designed to legislate morality rather than actually help victims of trafficking. Glad that elected officials are now rethinking it, at least.

> designed to legislate morality Like... almost all other laws? Do you think murder is immoral? Well guess what? There's a law for that. Just because you disagree with the morality being legislated, you can't pretend that "legislating morality" is the problem.

My guess is "legislating morality" refers to pushing legislation based solely on moral concerns. There are other reasons to outlaw murder than just morality.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#100

Post by paggle » Thu, Dec 19, 2019, 9:47 AM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #97

afarrell wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They pass notably different types of bills and are reliant on different sets of key supporters.

There’s definitely a cross section of highly biased and partisan supporters that could have swung either direction at some point in their life if they had hung out with different people.

Almost every person on earth could have swung in any direction if they had hung out with different people. If you or I hung out with Ancient Egyptians our whole lives we would have thought burying kings with living slaves was about as normal as surfing Hacker News.