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Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

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Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#751
post #378

I'm constantly baffled by how anti-union many Americans are, how willing to give up their rights.

My impression of these tech unionization efforts are that they're mostly about pushing a social/political agenda, with workers rights being an afterthought. Every single time I see these posts the involved employees are activist LGBT folks. Am I wrong here? Why do all these issues seem to stem from the same group of people?

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Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#752
arguing about the minutiae of whether google acted in accord with their own policies is exactly what google wants to happen here. She was fired for organizing. Google found a valid excuse to fire her but make no mistake, she was fired for organizing.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#753
post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A CompTia Security+ cert is actually pretty trivial. It's complete regurgitation, and not even of industry standard best practices, but of CompTia defined "best" practices. It's the lowest and most basic tech cert you can get. It certainly isn't evidence of any engineering discipline. The board and shareholders will have to decide whether this action was, or was not, in their best interests. But history has shown tha…

> It's the lowest and most basic tech cert you can get. As opposed to... what? Do college degrees promise engineering discipline? Surely not. Many successful engineers have nothing more than a high school diploma and industry experience. This has clearly gone into sexist territory now. She's a she, and therefore her experience and education is going to be audited by arbitrary and increasingly vague standards to make…

OK, I have to rebut some of this. I have no axe to grind about whether the engineer is male, female, trans, white, black, whatever. Fact is that when I wrote this I didn't know she was a female. Don't care.

How insane to claim that simple negativity toward a member of a protected group is an -ism. I'm not saying she isn't an engineer because of ANYTHING related to her sex.

She's getting raked over the coals because what she did was stupid and shows incredibly bad judgement. To imply that this is less bad, or maybe we shouldn't discuss it, or maybe we'd have a different opinion if she was not female is itself far more sexist.

I fully support non-degreed engineers. Yes, I agree there is no litmus test for "Engineer".

I'm clearly stating that a CompTIA+ is not sufficient to call someone an engineer. Regurgitating questionable facts does not make you an engineer. I didn't move the goalpost. But I can recognize something that isn't one.

She screwed up bad, because if there is ever any collective action, her case won't be in on it. She gave google an ironclad excuse to be fired. I'm not even arguing right vs. wrong but the way employment lawsuits work, she has zero chance.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#754
post #740
post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if it's "political" or not. It's completely 100% google management's choice whether the punishment for a serious (or tiny) rule infraction is anything from no action at all to firing. There is no rule that says it has to be consistent either. You can't fire a worker for organizing, or on the basis of sex, race, etc. But you CAN fire whoever you want for breaking even the most minor rules or even jus…

No, courts are run by humans and patched the "pretense" hack a long time ago.

It's not a pretense when she broke a serious rule. Whether or not she claims she didn't, google has determined she did. So therefore it's clearly not retaliation. That's the default position. Now, there would be a high burden of proof for her to claim it was a conspiracy and it really was related to union organizing. That she did not in fact violate a rule (based on googles own interpretation). Good luck! Unless she finds some incriminating emails or gets an executive to give extremely damaging testimony, she's toast.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being in charge of the infrastructure does not mean you are in charge of the content. Those are well defined roles. Specially in a company of that size. She didn’t just make a judgement call. She went way outside her role imo.

True, but the optics are terrible on this one. They should have seen this one coming and promoted her instead. They also should stop trying to prevent googlers from unionizing. The google of today is not the google of 15 years ago that's for sure. While they're at it, they should stop bending (and probably breaking) export controls regarding China, and stop doing immoral DoD and ICE projects. And heck, why not implem…

Um, there's already a process whereby private contracts, as well as all other company business is approved by a vote. It's called the shareholder meeting.

Now understandably the janitor has provided a lot less capital than deeply invested shareholder, so their votes are uniformly weighted according to their share of ownership.

I'm guessing the engineer might own about 1/10,000,000th or so of the company if she has a healthy 401K. So as long as she can convince 10,000 or so other employees and 49.91% of the rest of shareholders to go along...

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When workers organize and attempt to make demands greater than than the bosses are willing accede to, the bosses call in the police, private security, and depending on the political climate, right wing street fighters to start cracking heads. For a famous example of a dual power situation consider the 1934 Minneapolis teamsters' strike. https://teamster.org/about/teamster-history/1934

Even setting aside the obvious " Two wrongs do not make a right " response, if you have to cite history from 3/4 of a century ago, well...good luck persuading people with that. On the other hand, the public can easily find news stories of major corruption and criminal involvement by unions for each of the past few decades. (Oh, and by the way, the Teamsters, whose site you linked to, figure prominently in quite a num…

Ok boomer.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they do. They wouldn't hire you otherwise.

They hire you to make money off your labour, and pay you less than you make them, none of that involves "partnership".

"They" organise the workforce and find/reach a market for said labour. Is your assertion that this has no value?

Understand: I make no claim that malevolently exploitative companies don't exist; of course they do.

But your position seems to be that any company that makes any profit is malevolently exploitative.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#758
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is pretty dumb. The most important threat to a typical office dev computer is not console access, it's wayward processes and network traffic. What's more secure, a locked console (that protects you from ~1 local people that you know) or something like Little Snitch, which protects you from ~10e6 people you don't know?

It depends on the industry and the company. In some types of government work, it's a very serious security violation.

There is a difference between violating a security guideline and actually doing something that is insecure, and the difference is called "theater".

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#759
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You added your personal code to a browser extension.. I can't see how google is in the wrong. Unless google allows anyone to change this extension for personal reasons and they only flagged her. Could someone change it to let everyone know they are selling cookies or accepting donations to their church.

That's not how Google works. She mentions in the Gizmodo article that she had ownership over these files, which isn't given out casually. Creating these policy notifications would have been a core part of her work.

Right, but her job was to advise about company policies, not her own personal politics.

It's incredibly obvious this was a violation of her fiduciary duty.

Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize

#760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's significant that she did this on her own. You need multiple people for protected concerted activity.

It sounds like she went through a code review process for the change, would that count?

You have to satisfy the criteria of labor law, which is (working from memory here) that two or more employees come together in concert around a workplace issue. At that point they are engaged in protected concerted activity and you can't just fire them.

I don't believe the code review meets this test, but I'd love to hear from someone who knows what they're talking about.

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