Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 204 posts

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#31

Post by frank_nitti »

hyperpallium wrote: post #27
allovernow wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a lot harder to test without administering the subject in question because there are far more variables to control than (mostly) just A/B. HVAC may confound the study by removing the actual responsible substances, for example, if "air pollution" is not solely the cause.

Isn't removing the "actual responsible substances" from the air removing air pollutants?

Semantically, yes. But I assume they are referring to the what people would consider the usual suspects for "big city" pollution, i.e. exhaust, aerosols.

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#32

Post by ericd »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #29
sn41 wrote: post #8

I live in Northern India which has heavy air pollution. I recently bought an air purifier. Just the difference in the quality of sleep is amazing. And it is not a placebo effect. The filters are already visibly grimy. The PM 2.5 consistently now is around mid 20s down from around 180-190. I would recommend it to all in North India who can afford it, esp households with small children.

Are you sure? We had one of the bigger Blue Airs (605) in Beijing and I didn’t like using it at all. When it was a 150-200 day, I would just run it before sleep with the windows closed. On worse days, we ran it all night, but it was loud and made the air smell like ozone, giving me a headache. I’m so glad I live in the Seattle area now and can open the window at night.

Making the air smell like ozone means it’s probably doing something unhelpful/actively harmful in addition to filtering. Did it have an ionizer or similar?

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#33

Post by stevenwoo »

im3w1l wrote: post #7

> The results show strong correlations, but research that would prove a causal link is difficult because ethical experiments cannot deliberately expose people to harm. This is kind of my hobby horse: you don't need to subject people to harm to test causuality. You can do the opposite: Remove harm and see what happens. Maybe give people free HVAC upgrades to filter more particles.

They kind of already did that experiment in southern California for schools, they just need to run the numbers before and after filters installed adjusted for regular pollution/suicide rates https://www.scpr.org/news/2018/02/05/80413/at-schools-near-f...

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#34

Post by Noumenon72 »

mkhpalm wrote: post #9

Wouldn't a cleaner observation be: "depression and suicide linked to the largest cities in new global study"?

The cleanest observation would be Everything is Correlated (https://www.gwern.net/Causality) and correlation is not a productive way of investigating the world.

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#35

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ericd wrote: post #32
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? We had one of the bigger Blue Airs (605) in Beijing and I didn’t like using it at all. When it was a 150-200 day, I would just run it before sleep with the windows closed. On worse days, we ran it all night, but it was loud and made the air smell like ozone, giving me a headache. I’m so glad I live in the Seattle area now and can open the window at night.

Making the air smell like ozone means it’s probably doing something unhelpful/actively harmful in addition to filtering. Did it have an ionizer or similar?

No, it’s a Blue Air so doesn’t include an ionizer, it just when HEPA filter.

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#36

Post by yalok »

coconut_crab wrote: post #5

There are many factors at work here but I am sure being forced to stay indoor is depressive as hell. The city where I live has been in constant smog with AQI in the range of 200~300* and every outdoor activities are stopped, I can't even talk a walk around the nearby lakes to relieve my stress. * the air is terrible already and the government is going to build more coal plants, powered by the 'cleanest coal' approved…

What city & country is this?

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#37

Post by galangalalgol »

bransonf wrote: post #4

The causal relationship seems like a stretch here. I highly doubt reducing air pollution will cure anyone’s depression. That said, it has other value in signally regions of high air pollution are regions of higher proportional depression. Areas of high pollution are less desirable to live in. If you live right next to a highway, garbage dump or power plant, your property value is going to be lower. (I must admit, I’m…

Depression has many causes. Some of them are super simple. Loss of a loved one. Or a lack of manganese. Why is it surprising that breathing things other than air might ne depressing?

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#38

Post by hnuser123456 »

yalok wrote: post #36
coconut_crab wrote: post #5

There are many factors at work here but I am sure being forced to stay indoor is depressive as hell. The city where I live has been in constant smog with AQI in the range of 200~300* and every outdoor activities are stopped, I can't even talk a walk around the nearby lakes to relieve my stress. * the air is terrible already and the government is going to build more coal plants, powered by the 'cleanest coal' approved…

What city & country is this?

POTUS = prez of US

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#39

Post by allovernow »

The authors admit there is no causal relationship established between pollutants and depression. It's pure correlation. I don't understand how nebulous studies like this even get published. Still very convenient that we have yet another reason to abandon fossil fuels. Almost starting to feel like a trendy scapegoat and honestly an irrelevant comment given the total uncertainty behind the relationship.

But the Guardian made clear it's bias when it advertised for funding with a giant banner claiming "Trump must be impeached.". This isn't objective, fact based journalism, it's propagandist advocacy journalism.

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#40

Post by civilian »

JamesBarney wrote: post #30
saagarjha wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it is not a placebo effect. How do you know?

I think he means based on the size of the effect it's unlikely to be a placebo.

A treatment being a placebo implies nothing about the effect size!
Post reply on HN