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Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

theguardian.com

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Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#21

Post by n4r9 »

im3w1l wrote: post #7

> The results show strong correlations, but research that would prove a causal link is difficult because ethical experiments cannot deliberately expose people to harm. This is kind of my hobby horse: you don't need to subject people to harm to test causuality. You can do the opposite: Remove harm and see what happens. Maybe give people free HVAC upgrades to filter more particles.

Even when you lack this level of control it may still be possible to infer causal effects. There's some interesting work that I've seen on this, good write up here: http://www.michaelnielsen.org/ddi/if-correlation-doesnt-impl...

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#22

Post by mc3 »

opportune wrote: post #14
saagarjha wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it is not a placebo effect. How do you know?

You do not deserve the downvotes. Just because the purifier takes particulates out of the air doesn’t mean the effects on humans isn’t placebo

This seems ripe for placebo. Installing purifier and indeed measuring lower PM, means naturally you feel less worried and more relaxed!

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#24

Post by igor47 »

plug: if you're interested in air quality issues, we're hiring at Aclima. ping me at igor at aclima.io. we're deploying a distributed sensor grid to get actionable air-quality intelligence around the world, which we believe can motivate regulators to act, and motivate citizens to bug their regulators.

we're looking for folks interested in: * data engineering * firmware and IoT platforms * full-stack and internal tooling * data scientists and other kinds of scientists interested in data, air quality, and atmospheric/environmental modeling

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#25

Post by vonnik »

Fwiw, Scott Alexander wrote a couple great articles about depression in 2017:

https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/09/12/toward-a-predictive-th...

https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/13/what-is-depression-any...

The first tries to fit it into a predictive processing framework, the second rounds up a variety of findings, including correlation with inflammation and treatment with ketamine.

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#27

Post by hyperpallium »

allovernow wrote: post #10
im3w1l wrote: post #7

> The results show strong correlations, but research that would prove a causal link is difficult because ethical experiments cannot deliberately expose people to harm. This is kind of my hobby horse: you don't need to subject people to harm to test causuality. You can do the opposite: Remove harm and see what happens. Maybe give people free HVAC upgrades to filter more particles.

It's a lot harder to test without administering the subject in question because there are far more variables to control than (mostly) just A/B. HVAC may confound the study by removing the actual responsible substances, for example, if "air pollution" is not solely the cause.

Isn't removing the "actual responsible substances" from the air removing air pollutants?

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#28

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Oh wow, this totally. My wife had a rough time in Beijing during long stretches of bad air, and I knew other people whose moods would visibly change during those times.

The suicide aspect I’m not sure of, but many people I knew had the option of leaving and did.

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#29

Post by seanmcdirmid »

sn41 wrote: post #8

I live in Northern India which has heavy air pollution. I recently bought an air purifier. Just the difference in the quality of sleep is amazing. And it is not a placebo effect. The filters are already visibly grimy. The PM 2.5 consistently now is around mid 20s down from around 180-190. I would recommend it to all in North India who can afford it, esp households with small children.

Are you sure? We had one of the bigger Blue Airs (605) in Beijing and I didn’t like using it at all. When it was a 150-200 day, I would just run it before sleep with the windows closed. On worse days, we ran it all night, but it was loud and made the air smell like ozone, giving me a headache. I’m so glad I live in the Seattle area now and can open the window at night.

Re: Depression and suicide linked to air pollution in new global study

#30

Post by JamesBarney »

saagarjha wrote: post #11
sn41 wrote: post #8

I live in Northern India which has heavy air pollution. I recently bought an air purifier. Just the difference in the quality of sleep is amazing. And it is not a placebo effect. The filters are already visibly grimy. The PM 2.5 consistently now is around mid 20s down from around 180-190. I would recommend it to all in North India who can afford it, esp households with small children.

> And it is not a placebo effect. How do you know?

I think he means based on the size of the effect it's unlikely to be a placebo.
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