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Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

nytimes.com

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Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#41

Post by 3131s »

k__ wrote: post #20
rolltiide wrote: post #15

I prefer Germany, Austria and Switzerland's model. Its not a panacea in preventing trafficking but for the workers that want to be there it doesn't criminalize them, and the market for establishments are pretty competitive and great for patrons. Game of Thrones can't even compare, while many tourists corral themselves over to one street in Amsterdam due to its marketing campaign even though there are whole countries…

As far as I know the problem here in Germany is legalization. They could simply have decriminalized prostitution and leave procuration illegal, but no, they had to throw around with laws to make the live of sex-workers harder.

Why is that making sex workers lives harder?

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#42

Post by np_tedious »

jseliger wrote: post #6

I just wrote this, in reply to an essay about The Irishman https://jakeseliger.com/2019/12/18/links-lessons-to-unlearn-... : “The lonesome Irishman.” On the movie The Irishman ; the essay almost makes me want to watch it, but not quite enough, because I feel like I’ve seen enough mob movies. After The Sopranos, Goodfellas, The Godfather, and probably some more, plus reading Diego Gambetta’s Codes of the Underworld: H…

Why shouldn't opiods be legal? Sure, they are bad. But so is tobacco. Most overdoses happen precisely because of unstable dosages or unexpected fentanyl.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#43

Post by istjohn »

heydabop wrote: post #29
istjohn wrote: post #17

There is a debate as to whether or not legalizing prostitution exacerbates sex slavery by creating a market for prostitution that willing market participants are unable to fill. This author[1] points out that studies on this question use the term "sex trafficking" which can mean either illegal immigration of willing sex workers or sex slavery. That distinction seems important, but is often not clarified by investigat…

> AGAINST: Women. Women stand to lose if their partners are tempted by legal prostitution. If someone's partner is gonna be tempted away simply by legal prostitution, maybe they aren't the most faithful to begin with.

I suppose it depends on whether you're more concerned with your partner's character in an abstract way or you're more concerned about actual infidelity.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#44

Post by hiram112 »

paulgb wrote: post #30
jrochkind1 wrote: post #22

You mean exactly how sex workers said it would, but nobody listened to them, because it was never actually about protecting sex workers or victims of sex trafficking? https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sex-workers-bill-fosta-sesta_... https://medium.com/voices/while-america-gawks-at-stormy-dani...

It was so infuriating to watch Democrats willingly get played by the religious right into supporting something that was so blatantly designed to legislate morality rather than actually help victims of trafficking. Glad that elected officials are now rethinking it, at least.

It isn't just the religious right that pushes for backwards prostitution laws. It is also... feminists.

Aren't feminists always going on about "my body, my right" when it comes to abortion and other forms of contraceptives? Of course, but when it comes to prostitution, they seem to take a 'differing' view.

Why?

When prostitution is decriminalized, the price of sex goes down, as would be expected in any market where the product / service carries less legal risk and societal stigmas than before. Thus, men are far less likely to pay large premiums for sex with non-prostitutes including 'courting', dating, marriage, etc.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#45

Post by avgeek23 »

hiram112 wrote: post #44
paulgb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was so infuriating to watch Democrats willingly get played by the religious right into supporting something that was so blatantly designed to legislate morality rather than actually help victims of trafficking. Glad that elected officials are now rethinking it, at least.

It isn't just the religious right that pushes for backwards prostitution laws. It is also... feminists. Aren't feminists always going on about "my body, my right" when it comes to abortion and other forms of contraceptives? Of course, but when it comes to prostitution, they seem to take a 'differing' view. Why? When prostitution is decriminalized, the price of sex goes down, as would be expected in any market where t…

Ah this comment sums up perfectly.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#46

Post by scarejunba »

hiram112 wrote: post #44
paulgb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was so infuriating to watch Democrats willingly get played by the religious right into supporting something that was so blatantly designed to legislate morality rather than actually help victims of trafficking. Glad that elected officials are now rethinking it, at least.

It isn't just the religious right that pushes for backwards prostitution laws. It is also... feminists. Aren't feminists always going on about "my body, my right" when it comes to abortion and other forms of contraceptives? Of course, but when it comes to prostitution, they seem to take a 'differing' view. Why? When prostitution is decriminalized, the price of sex goes down, as would be expected in any market where t…

You don’t need complex market forces. It is fairly common for people to disallow other people from doing things:

* for their own good

* for perceived externalities

This is common enough for drugs, heavy metal, child employment, and contracting that it doesn’t surprise me they would apply it to prostitution. In fact, I think the probability of women wanting to corner the market for sex is low.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#47

Post by amanaplanacanal »

hiram112 wrote: post #44
paulgb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was so infuriating to watch Democrats willingly get played by the religious right into supporting something that was so blatantly designed to legislate morality rather than actually help victims of trafficking. Glad that elected officials are now rethinking it, at least.

It isn't just the religious right that pushes for backwards prostitution laws. It is also... feminists. Aren't feminists always going on about "my body, my right" when it comes to abortion and other forms of contraceptives? Of course, but when it comes to prostitution, they seem to take a 'differing' view. Why? When prostitution is decriminalized, the price of sex goes down, as would be expected in any market where t…

Some feminists. I doubt that is a majority view.

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#48

Post by scarejunba »

stevenicr wrote: post #37
dzonga wrote: post #21

the reason, backpage was shut down is that the gvt couldn't get a cut. and like all activities that are morally, grey. once the gvt stops getting their cut, they will scoop in. it's just the same, way the mafia is allowed to operate unions etc and once they ruffle feathers and stop contributing to politicians then all of a sudden the mafia is running a racket. Yet the gvt runs the biggest racket, protection scheme. s…

I believe it was shutdown not because they didn't get a cut, but because they were the perfect boogeyman to create a large cut of other pies. From 'im a do-gooder' message in campaign ads, to raising money from church groups - backpage was popular enough for just about everyone to have known about it, and many people likely to have an associate that actually uses it.. from Cook County Sheriff Tom Dart, and all of his…

> Kamalla Hariz, Marcha Blakbern

What is with this bizarre spelling?

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#49

Post by hiram112 »

I think the most unmentioned facet regarding prostitution is that for many men, prostitution may be the only way for them to obtain sex, which I feel is just as much of a "right" as is the right for women to obtain an abortion.

No I don't believe taxpayers should be required to pay for prostitutes, nor for abortions.

But the market for both should be decriminalized. Not only is this something that is morally right, though I'm sure feminists especially will not agree, I believe this is in society's best interest, too.

There are more and more studies showing most men did not actually propagate throughout history, and this is also true with many other mammals. The alpha obtains a harem, and the rest fight over what's left (or die trying).

I have a feeling that the institution of monogamy came about in almost all cultures simply to avoid the problems associated with large numbers of males, programmed by evolution to do one thing, unable to obtain it.

Inexpensive and shameless prostitution might be an alternative as it seems monogamy is declining, and some version of polygamy becoming more normal with few men sharing many women (if you believe the online dating app stats and lots of anecdotes online).

Re: Stamping Out Online Sex Trafficking May Have Pushed It Underground

#50

Post by roenxi »

istjohn wrote: post #40
roenxi wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've missed a fairly large FOR - people who support freedom & liberty. The arguments against prostitution centre around its second order effects on greater society and is a crime with hypothetical rather than actual victims. The argument that there should be a victim of some sort before criminalising something is compelling. It is difficult to argue that the prostitutes feel they are victims of prostitution without…

Freedom and liberty is one argument for legalization, but I don't think there are enough hard core Libertarians to be a major force in this debate.

It isn't a particularly hard-core position. They aren't a major force in the debate but there will be a very substantial demographic who don't care one way or the other but are in principle happy to leave well enough alone. They'd probably have a mild preference for not arresting people for no reason.

Prostitution has been legal in Australia since around the 90s. Nobody particularly cares^. The only people who it has implications for are people who choose to be involved.

^ Ie, it doesn't crop up in politics as an issue. Lots of people care. Nobody is making a big deal about it.

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