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Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

uncontactedtribes.org

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Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#321

Post by yaix »

borism wrote: post #283
burgerbrain wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"By definition, Alternative Medicine has either not been proved to work, or been proved not to work. Do you know what they call Alternative medicine that's been proved to work? Medicine. " --Tim Minchin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujUQn0HhGEk

Traditional medicine != Alternative medicine, it's the only medicine available for majority of people on Earth (about 80% of people in Asia are exposed almost exclusively to it). Chinese had their medicine when we europeans were still living in caves.

There is also a european traditional medicine, only that it has been largely forgotten because scientific medicine was so much more effective. In China they never developed any scientific approach to healing, so the traditional stuff was all they had. And no, its not "that" old.

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#322

Post by yaix »

Knowledge is misery, so better leave them alone.

Having knowledge about the world only shows you how much you don't know. And the more you learn, the more you are aware of all the things you have not yet discovered and will never learn in your lifetime.

So, its much nicer to be able to know "the whole world" (i.e. the isolated village you live in). You know everything and everybody in the "world" and for the stuff you can't explain (lightning, death) you just make up a god and blame it on him/her.

What a great life!

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#323

Post by Helianthus16 »

DufusM wrote: post #269
Helianthus16 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. India is now an "important" country. Burgeoning technologically and culturally, what it received from Britain was access to the intellectual firestorm of the Enlightenment. Hindu thinkers were involved in the formation of Universalism, the idea that all religions were different aspects of the same thing and could be united. Of course, it cost them the pain of the Pakistan-India divide, the struggle of Gandhi, and…

It is a bit presumptuous to assume that India or S.A. would not have made progress or exchanged "intellectual" information without a country sailing over and lording over it for a hundred years. Disclaimer: I am an Indian.

I'm not assuming anything, I'm making an assertion--an assertion that could be right or wrong. In particular I am not assuming/asserting that India or S.A. would not have made progress.

I am saying that the effects of colonial rule are so unstable and so varied that it can be difficult to the point of meaninglessness to say a country would be "better" or "worse" without it.

The Bengal Renaissance is a documented movement, founded and driven by people exposed to Western thought. That doesn't mean the movement wasn't theirs, that they weren't the ones producing "intellectual" information. But they were in a different place because of colonialism than they would have been without, one where Indians went to school in Britain and where people were writing letters to each other across the ocean.

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#324

Post by Helianthus16 »

waterhouse wrote: post #303
xenophanes wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I readily acknowledge we may agree more than it first appears given the particular emphasis we each chose. But I do think there is substantive disagreement here within the realm of non-violent (and, dare I say it: civilized) ways to approach the matter. The very idea of having a way that "we" deal with "uncontacted tribes" is collectivist on both ends. Individuals should do whatever they want without violating anyone…

Observing this discussion, it occurs to me (not for the first time) that it would be nice if people discussing the topic took each other's words literally, didn't take them to mean anything beyond the literal meaning. xenophanes says "Our way of life is better" and argues for "giv[ing] them access to technology and to our way of life" and against "[p]reserving their backwards culture", "actions that maintain them in…

I actually think it's just that difficult a problem. Whether we decide to contact them or not, in a sense we're still deciding _for_ them whether or not they will have access to technology that will fundamentally reshape their culture.

In a sense it also isn't our place to _care_ if _they_ decide to fundamentally reshape their culture based on what we "give" them.

Both of these viewpoints have been important in world history. Would Africa be so violent if there were less people selling them guns? Is it our right to _not_ sell guns to people if we know they're going to be used for violence that is, in our eyes, senseless?

Mostly I see polite disagreement in this topic. If we're putting words in mouths, it's because those words are the natural conclusion proceeded to upon viewing the actually mouthed words from the opposite perspective.

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#326

Post by Helianthus16 »

kul wrote: post #276
Helianthus16 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. India is now an "important" country. Burgeoning technologically and culturally, what it received from Britain was access to the intellectual firestorm of the Enlightenment. Hindu thinkers were involved in the formation of Universalism, the idea that all religions were different aspects of the same thing and could be united. Of course, it cost them the pain of the Pakistan-India divide, the struggle of Gandhi, and…

You should look at India's share of world GDP before the British came and after they left.

GDP is one measure of a country's power. I should point out that measuring the GDP of India prior to British imposition is a little bit hairy since India was not really a singular political entity.

Besides, my point was never that India didn't suffer; my point was to illustrate some of the advantages of colonial rule and demonstrate _just how muddy_ the interference of a technologically superior culture can become.

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#328

Post by Helianthus16 »

bugsy wrote: post #277
Helianthus16 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope he was talking about something a little more subtle, like the fact that we have so many Hispanic people here without citizenship and have therefore created a sort of lower subservient class. But probably not, slavery's a bit too strong a term unless there's a somewhat-mitigating "wage" in front of it.

Actually I was thinking about both situations. Others as well but the sex slave trafficking and migrant slavery are two of them. http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/mar/03/farmworker-slaver... and http://www.tampabay.com/opinion/columns/modern-day-slavery-m... are some articles about recent situations in Florida. There's also domestic servant slavery and even factory worker slavery, such as the slaves that are import…

It is possible to link all of these happenings by the single term "slavery" but that does not make it prudent for the course of communication. In your original post you elucidated images of chattel slavery, the actual written right to own another person within the law, which does not exist in the United States. In practice there are other forms of slavery, of course, as you demonstrate, some more subtle and some less.

But don't fall into the trap of over-applying the label, particularly one as loaded (in the US) as slavery.

Also, your smugness is... well, smug. Yes. Yes I did know about that. Stick to the information and cut out the assumption that you're delivering a revelation, because you're not.

However, I appreciate your bitterness and rage towards the unfairness of the world.

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#329

Post by yummyfajitas »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #312
raganwald wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect we still agree on the principles. The only thing I am advocating is thinking things through. For example, it is very difficult to interact with them without violating their right to life because it is easy to infect them with a disease. What do we do? Nothing, and let people figure it out for themselves? Put up signs? Or restrict the area to anthropologists who have training in the matter? I don't personall…

...it is very difficult to interact with them without violating their right to life because it is easy to infect them with a disease. What do we do? Ship in a bunch of doctors, and introduce them to disease under medically controlled circumstances. We can't isolate them forever to avoid an epidemic, but we can try to mitigate the impact when it occurs.

To those downmodding, do you have a better solution? Should we simply wait for accidental contact (most likely with no doctors present) to wipe out everyone?

Re: Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe

#330

Post by jseifer »

AngryParsley wrote: post #281
jseifer wrote: post #146

Did anyone else notice how healthy they looked?

Selection effect. You also didn't see anyone with cleft palettes or appendicitis or iodine deficiency. If somebody gets sick or injured in that tribe, they're much more likely to die than in most places. Also, sick or injured people don't romp around the forest checking out strange birds in the sky.

Yeah but compare the groups you saw there to some random groups you'd see in a mall here. There's a pretty big difference.
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