10 years in the trenches here. Apple’s smart home protocol famously does not support multiple users. Amazon is choosy on what features you can implement (turn on alarms but not turning them off, locking doors but not unlocking them). Google loves using radio hardware no one else supports. Zigbee has delightful legacy security vulnerabilities and consortium drama. I look forward to these groups putting aside their dif…
> Apples smart home protocol famously does not support multiple users. Can you clarify this? I set up my "home" and was able to share it with my wife, who sees all of the same controls in the Home app that I do. We don't have any family sharing, etc set up.
Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
311–320 of 364 posts
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That said (and you touched on this) the average consumer is not prepared to deal with any of that, maybe that will change but as of today it's not easy or even possible with most consumer-grade hardware. Right, at one point it looked like something like UniFi could show the way there, but Ubiquiti unfortunately has turned into a development dumpster fire and really lost its way, and I don't know of anyone else atte…
I haven't followed the AmpliFi line closely to know if it has easy VLAN support but yeah... I really like the UniFi offerings but a fulling working UniFi system (excluding the UDM) costs ~$800 from my last estimate. I'm saving for it but that's cause I'm a weirdo who enjoys those kinds of things. If you don't mind me asking what networking stack are you using? Also thank you for the very well thought out and reasoned…
Having said all that, their PtP/PtMP links are still nice. Their APs are solid overall, and do have nice industrial design (though no word on WiFi 6, which for a new install I'd consider fairly important). The interface has degraded significantly over the last few versions, but it's still better and more unified than any other I know of. I mean, I'm still running it myself after all. But if you go that route know what you're getting into and look hard for open box and used stuff that'll be cheap. And I'd honestly suggest not bothering with the cloud key and just running the controller yourself, on an RPi or similar if you want something dedicated but cheap or else spin up a VM or container, or even just run native I guess if you've got a server you run otherwise. The CK is also ancient.
In summary: I adored UniFi, and the potential was(is?) fantastic, and their old vision was fantastic, and at one point they were a really solid venture all around. And I know of nothing else with the same vision either. Yet even so I'm expecting to have to dump it overall in the next few years, which sucks. But long bitter experience has taught me that glorious turnarounds are much more the exception than the rule :(.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#313Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#314Interesting that Mozilla is not on the list. They are one of the few companies I'd genuinely trust with smart home data.
There is a place for both WebThings and this new protocol. WebThings is too heavy for low-power devices and mesh networks like Bluetooth and Thread. But would be nice to have standard API for web services and gateways. The ideal world would be this new protocol on the local network and WebThings across the internet.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
I haven't followed the AmpliFi line closely to know if it has easy VLAN support but yeah... I really like the UniFi offerings but a fulling working UniFi system (excluding the UDM) costs ~$800 from my last estimate. I'm saving for it but that's cause I'm a weirdo who enjoys those kinds of things. If you don't mind me asking what networking stack are you using? Also thank you for the very well thought out and reasoned…
Sorry for the slow reply, and I see you've got (and made) one other response. As far as what stack I'm using, on my test lab it's a big mix of course, but my main personal stack right now is UniFi dating back from quite a few years ago. However, I really want to reemphasize my "dumpster fire" aside: I strong DON'T recommend getting into UniFi right now if you're starting fresh, or at least, if you do be really carefu…
I might go down the secondhand/used route if I do decide to do it. Right now I’ve got a single all-in-one router running LEDE and I like it but I’m not able to reach more than 60% of my fiber internet so I’ve been looking to upgrade. I decided that if I was going to throw a couple hundred at it I figured I might as well go all in.
It’s always sad to see a company throw away such a promising future. I saw their new AmpliFi “Alien” router and I’m half tempted to buy that and wait a few more years for a better option to present itself. Or even the UDM but it seems like a very odd offering to me... I guess I’ll keep looking, thank you again for the advice.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#316Interesting that Mozilla is not on the list. They are one of the few companies I'd genuinely trust with smart home data.
The gateway runs on an RPI and they give you a URL so you can access it from anywhere.
I'm surprised it hasn't got more attention here.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Amazon is choosy on what features you can implement Allowing someone to holler into an open (or recently broken) window to open my front door sounds terrifying.
If they broke your window they’d probably crawl through it.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#318I hope security is at the top of their list. I want a super secure hub that everything connects to. The hub is the only thing that speaks to my router. The hub is super secure & doesn't let devices send data back to their manufacturer. If I buy cheap devices off a flea market like Amazon, I want to sleep safe & know that the hub is preventing that device from messing with any other devices or accessing the internet.…
Apple, Amazon, and Google are fundamentally opposed to a model that sells devices that don’t phone home - their whole purpose is to capture value by creating lock-in for surveillable hosted services
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#319Earlier quoted context omitted.
> mostly to prevent competition from low cost devices manufactured in China. mostly to prevent competition from patent-infringing clones manufactured in China. FIFY
I actually worked at Ember for a bit before leaving when they get bought by Silicon Labs. The reason, internally, really was the fear that there would be a flood of low quality products that would make ZigBee look bad.
That's mental gymnastics. The fear is having to compete against cheaper products (possibly low quality, but possibly not). Even broken DRM is an excellent anti-competitive tool because no one can legally sell a competing product.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#32010 years in the trenches here. Apple’s smart home protocol famously does not support multiple users. Amazon is choosy on what features you can implement (turn on alarms but not turning them off, locking doors but not unlocking them). Google loves using radio hardware no one else supports. Zigbee has delightful legacy security vulnerabilities and consortium drama. I look forward to these groups putting aside their dif…
> Apple’s smart home protocol famously does not support multiple users. It does? I'm added to my dad's account and can access everything just fine along with my own stuff.