Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How Can I Learn Music Theory?

news.ycombinator.com

211–220 of 243 posts

Re: Ask HN: How Can I Learn Music Theory?

#211
I have a music degree but have also engaged in a lot of self-study, so hopefully I can still make good recommendations for someone interested in learning on their own. The general approach I'd recommend is trampolining between on-paper theory and ear training, with the specific goal at each stage being the ability to identify by listening the structures that you're learning about on paper. The text I'd recommend is Aldwell's Harmony and Voice Leading, which is very focussed on the techniques of classical Western concert music but is still, along with its exercises, the best bet I can think of for building a solid foundation of knowledge that you can bring to other musical styles.

The most important thing I can recommend while starting out is to focus your ear training on hearing scale degrees (e.g., if I play a C major chord and then play a random note from the C major scale, you should be able to identify which note that is out of C, D, E, F, G, A or B). A lot of naive ear training resources recommend learning to hear intervals (e.g. a perfect 5th, which is the interval between C and G or E and B), but intervals only really have meaning in the context of a key, and so understanding them in that context is much more important. A good app for training with this on iOS is Politonus: it'll play a few chords to establish a key, and then it'll play a random note from the key and prompt you to guess which one it was. As you improve with this, you can have it play multiple notes at a time, or even notes outside of the key.

Re: Ask HN: How Can I Learn Music Theory?

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to remember that there is no real "bottom-up" when it comes to music theory. Sure there's a couple of rough audio-acoustic rules like how simple fractions of frequences sound more harmonious because there's less beating, but those rules are few and don't get you far. They're equivalent to noting that, say, vowel sounds with similar formants are harder to distinguish. That's true, but there's no way to…

Expanding on your comment about vowels, I don't think it's fair to say that music is completely arbitrary in the same way as, say, language. Whereas for language we can be pretty confident in saying that it really is truly arbitrary, e.g. see the birth and development of Nicaraguan Sign Language: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaraguan_Sign_Language To put this another way, two hypothetical languages developed in co…

Your claim about linguistics here is subject a great deal controversy in the linguistics world. The question of whether there is, for example, a deep grammar that is shared across all languages, is a matter of long lasting and deep debate (these days it seems to be leaning to "no", but the debate is not over).

So... I agree with your point about music, but I'm not sure you're right to try to contrast it with language in this respect.

Re: Ask HN: How Can I Learn Music Theory?

#213

Here's how I approach it: forget about all the historic naming like "perfect fifths" and just think in terms of the modern 12-note equal temperament. Every note is a number, e.g. 440 Herz = 69, the standard guitar tuning has strings from 40 to 64, etc. Every interval is an integer, up an octave is +12, major chord is a triple of {x, x+4, x+7}, minor seventh chord is {x, x+3, x+7, x+10} etc. Then, as a the second game…

> Here's how I approach it: forget about all the historic naming like "perfect fifths" and just think in terms of the modern 12-note equal temperament. You actually want to learn these names, because they characterize the diatonic scale. Basically, pick seven contiguous notes on the circle of fifths, you get the pitch-class set of a diatonic scale. Then put the notes in the set in pitch order, and pick a tonal center…

How do you make a note a tonic center? If any of the same seven notes can be a tonic, what makes it a tonic?

Re: Ask HN: How Can I Learn Music Theory?

#214
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just find the black and whites puzzling. Sure, the steps are the same from the prime up, but with C major you end up on all white and with others you can end up on blacks here and there.

> I just find the black and whites puzzling. Yeah, they are largely a historical artifact from before the days of equal-temperament tuning. A few things they have going for them: * They give you a visual reference point for an absolute pitch. It's easy to find any specific note by looking for it relative to the unique pattern of black keys. C is always to the left of the pair of blacks. Other instruments require diff…

Guitars get multiple rows done too.

And a zigzag would be nicer than here two and there three.

But yes, I probably have to learn the keys for a few days and things are good :)

Re: Ask HN: How Can I Learn Music Theory?

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You apparently need an intro to music set theory: https://ianring.com/musictheory/scale

Why do I "need" this? I don't understand what you are trying to tell me. Does this explain some alternative terminology? I'm a little put off by the way you wrote that comment.

Sorry, didn't mean to be offensive.

That link provides an introduction to MST terminology, starting from somewhat math/nerd angles and moving gently.

You will find that MST provides clear terminology for the sort of thing you're trying to talk about/say.

Re: Ask HN: How Can I Learn Music Theory?

#218

My hot take: HN is probably one of the worst places to ask for advice on music theory, because it has a fairly high concentration of people who reject traditional music theory and want to come up with their own system. In general, these people haven’t gotten very far in making up their own system, so their advice is pretty worthless! My other hot take is that the existing system of musical notation and terminology th…

> Alternatively, you can use a computer program to write music, but the choices are a bit intimidating. MuseScore is free and open source. Totally fine for casual use.

When they say that a program is "intimidating," most people are talking about the user interface and the learning curve, not the license.

Re: Ask HN: How Can I Learn Music Theory?

#219
I learned it from my guitar teacher as an adult. Started with scales and ear training, then onto what chords were, modes and then chord substitutions and things like that. Most of the weird stuff I know about music comes from YouTube videos, though, and I'd recommend Adam Neely or Rick Beato because they'll probably have a video in their catalogues that you'll enjoy.

Learning the basics will be boring, not going to mince my words on it. Treat it like a pattern exercise, since that's what most of it is. The theory is stupidly dry, as useful as it can be, but I don't think there's really any other way to learn it beyond wrote learning.

Re: Ask HN: How Can I Learn Music Theory?

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here's how I approach it: forget about all the historic naming like "perfect fifths" and just think in terms of the modern 12-note equal temperament. You actually want to learn these names, because they characterize the diatonic scale. Basically, pick seven contiguous notes on the circle of fifths, you get the pitch-class set of a diatonic scale. Then put the notes in the set in pitch order, and pick a tonal center…

How do you make a note a tonic center? If any of the same seven notes can be a tonic, what makes it a tonic?

by it's function in the overall harmonic scheme, and through it's positioning and usage relative to the other notes.

"tonic" is another way of referring to the "key" of the song.

Post reply on HN