A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#131

Post by throwaway_tech » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:33 PM UTC

jtx22 wrote: post #68

jordanpg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that we put other humans in cages for any reason is probably unforgivable on a long enough timeline, especially for non-violent crimes.

Protecting the sovereignty of your country will be paramount in the future. Future generations will look back at this borderless craze.. as truly insane.

>Protecting the sovereignty of your country will be paramount in the future.

Well that would be a giant step back from all the gains that have been made post WWII with the development of the United Nations, UN Security Council, UN Charter, and the entire body of international laws which is founded on sovereign nations voluntarily subjecting themselves to these international law, treaties, customs and norms.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#132

Post by zaccus » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:39 PM UTC

weberc2 wrote: post #78

ceautery wrote: post #12

> I wonder if any of our current practices will be viewed as barbaric. The US jailed 70,000 migrant children this year. I doubt history will smile on that.

I want to keep this civil and perhaps learn something, but what is the specific objection with respect to complaints of detention? Do folks just want better detention conditions or are we advocating for giving citizenship to everyone who wants it? EDIT: Why the downvotes? I'm asking a genuine question. How did I manage to offend?

Process them and decide what to do on a case-by-case basis. "Catch and release". Just like we were doing. It was working very well and it was humane.

There was never really a crisis until we created one.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#133

Post by zaccus » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

jtx22 wrote: post #68

jordanpg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that we put other humans in cages for any reason is probably unforgivable on a long enough timeline, especially for non-violent crimes.

Protecting the sovereignty of your country will be paramount in the future. Future generations will look back at this borderless craze.. as truly insane.

How has the sovereignty of your country materially benefited you?

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#134

Post by ansible » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:41 PM UTC

tasogare wrote: post #79

ceautery wrote: post #12

> I wonder if any of our current practices will be viewed as barbaric. The US jailed 70,000 migrant children this year. I doubt history will smile on that.

You forget to say these kids didn’t magically lend in jail. They were brought there by their parents that purposely broke immigration laws. They possibly even did it with the idea of appealing to emotion of US citizens to get away with it.

> They were brought there by their parents that purposely broke immigration laws.

Yes, they crossed the border illegally, in order to apply for asylum, because they would have been automatically rejected otherwise.

Think though, for a moment, how desperate someone must be, to give up their home, travel thousands of miles (not in an airplane) and put their lives in danger, just for the chance for asylum in the USA.

> They possibly even did it with the idea of appealing to emotion of US citizens to get away with it.

Yes, because parents of children often sacrifice their children's health and livelihood just to make a point. Or as a media stunt.

If you don't care about these people, if you feel no sympathy at all, that's fine (well... it's not fine, but it is besides the point). But such cynicism as to their own motives is not accurate.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#135

Post by jolmg » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:45 PM UTC

aazaa wrote: post #81

The article links to the original source: https://freedomonthemove.org Scrolling down, one sees an ad from none other than Thomas Jefferson: > In Alberale, a Mulatto slave called Sandy, about 35 years of age, his stature is rather low, including to corpulence, and his complexion light; he is a shoemaker by trade, in which he uses his left hand principally, and is something of a horse jockey; ... Whoever conveys the s…

What's with the rewards on that?

> Whoever conveys the said slave to me, in Albemarle, shall have 40 s. reward, if taken up within the county, 4 l. if elsewhere within the colony, and 10 l. if in any other colony ...

Is that "s" for small, "l" for large? small/large what?

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#136

Post by zaccus » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:45 PM UTC

deogeo wrote: post #104

danharaj wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strict immigration control is a relatively modern phenomenon, and you should reevaluate your viewpoint if you find it so easy to justify putting children in cages. Scratch that, justify other people putting children in cages. Most people who support these policies wouldn't have the stomach to do the dirty work themselves.

The present state of migration is also a modern phenomenon - otherwise, countries wouldn't be trending from more towards less homogeneous, but would already be in a 'steady state'.

Not true. People have been migrating from place to place for all of recorded history. Cultural homogeneity is nothing more than a "good ole days" fallacy; it's never really been a thing anywhere, except in the most remote parts of the world.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#137

Post by pnw_hazor » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:51 PM UTC

zaccus wrote: post #132

weberc2 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to keep this civil and perhaps learn something, but what is the specific objection with respect to complaints of detention? Do folks just want better detention conditions or are we advocating for giving citizenship to everyone who wants it? EDIT: Why the downvotes? I'm asking a genuine question. How did I manage to offend?

Process them and decide what to do on a case-by-case basis. "Catch and release". Just like we were doing. It was working very well and it was humane. There was never really a crisis until we created one.

The crisis was created by Obama's DOJ breaking decades old precedent and allowing asylum claims for local crime or safety problems. This opened the floodgates so to speak. Before then valid grounds for asylum claims were (mostly) limited to the threat of harm caused by a government.

Recently, Trump's DOJ reverted policy back to the way had been for decades. This has reduced the incentive to send women and children first because domestic violence/crime are no longer grounds for asylum claims.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#138

Post by totalZero » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 7:59 PM UTC

jolmg wrote: post #135

aazaa wrote: post #81

The article links to the original source: https://freedomonthemove.org Scrolling down, one sees an ad from none other than Thomas Jefferson: > In Alberale, a Mulatto slave called Sandy, about 35 years of age, his stature is rather low, including to corpulence, and his complexion light; he is a shoemaker by trade, in which he uses his left hand principally, and is something of a horse jockey; ... Whoever conveys the s…

What's with the rewards on that? > Whoever conveys the said slave to me, in Albemarle, shall have 40 s. reward, if taken up within the county, 4 l. if elsewhere within the colony, and 10 l. if in any other colony ... Is that "s" for small, "l" for large? small/large what?

I'm guessing s is shillings and l is pounds.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#139

Post by pnw_hazor » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 8:01 PM UTC

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #64

wholepointofcc wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a list of countries Mexicans (just an example, I know there are people from elsewhere coming in thru y'alls southern border) don't need Visas to enter: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Visa_req... It literally includes all other countries in the American continent except for Guyana. Immigrate to these countries instead. Thank me later. Why would someone illegally immigrate to the USA in this…

>Why would someone illegally immigrate to the USA in this day and age is beyond my comprehension. Specifically to respond to this misconception: ALL of the people from "the caravan", ALL of the parents of the 70,000 children that were locked up and taken away FOLLOWED THE LAW and DID EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE TOLD THEM TO DO. They were seeking asylum and political refuge. They followed our law to receive protection/shelte…

You don't get asylum because of local crime/safety. Also, you are supposed make the claim for asylum at the first country (Mexico) for your claim to hold up.

So most of these recent claims can and should be immediately rejected. There was brief window where Obama's DOJ changed policy and allowed granting asylum for local criminal problems (non-state oppression). Trump's DOJ changed the asylum policy, returning to international norms.

So unless an alien is fleeing state oppression and they have tried to get asylum at the nearest/adjacent non-conflict country, they have no grounds for receiving asylum in the USA.

Re: A Database of Fugitive Slave Ads Reveals Thousands of Untold Stories (2018)

#140

Post by weberc2 » Wed, Dec 18, 2019, 8:02 PM UTC

danharaj wrote: post #128

weberc2 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not being coy, I don't know what the specific concerns are. I've been quite explicit about this.

Which means that you're taking as the neutral stance to not have a concern with arbitrary detention of asylum seekers. You have implicitly taken a position on who has the burden of justifying themselves. Do you see how people can take issue with that since it violates international law concerning the rights of asylum seekers?

I'm not taking a neutral stance. I don't understand the issue and I'm asking for clarification on one of the points. I'm not passing judgment on either position nor am I asking anyone to "justify themselves". What a bizarre accusation...