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India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

independent.co.uk

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Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#291

Post by ninni »

timbuck2 wrote: post #243
denzil_correa wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly, that can’t be used as an argument against persecution of non Muslims - the country didn’t even exist then!

It can, because Jinnah himself had assured all minorities of Pakistan the safety. AFTER partition, the rioting mobs killed and drove out Hindus, later Ahmadiyyas, and more recently Christians.

Just goes to show you the importance of secularism and it's need to be bastioned. Using the same protected grounds under which people seek asylum, to discriminate is inherently unprincipled. All things being equal, non muslims may well have more pressing claims to refugee protections. The merits and priority of a migrants application can be determined without destroying India's secular fabric.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#292

Post by wizzwizz4 »

yumraj wrote: post #281
smt1 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Historically, because of a long tradition of practices such as jizya, historically (now it varies from country to country) there tended to be much more tolerance of "lateral" religions such as Christianity and Judaism in muslim lands than other sects of Islam, which were considered dangerous heresys. South Asia was kind of unique because there was often muslim sultanate leaders over very large non-muslim populat…

> that forced a sort of realpolitik tolerance Jizya tax was imposed in large parts of India on non-Muslim populations[0]. Not sure how you can call it tolerance? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya#India

Increased taxation (and, yes, even slavery) is sort of tolerance when compared to war and genocide. If you can enslave somebody as a punishment, you're treating them as free otherwise – treating them as a person by default.

In other times and in other parts of the world, not even that has been the case.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#293

Post by nl »

quantummkv wrote: post #158
pintxo wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Optimism does not mix well with detention camps.

It worked for us when throwing out the Brits in the 40's. So why shouldn't it work now if required?

Let me get your argument straight here: You are saying that because the British tried it and it didn't work that makes it ok to try again? Are you hoping for failure or success here?

Anyway, to address your question:

Because then the British were a small minority, exhausted by WW2 attempting to oppress a large majority who clearly had natural justice on their side.

This time it is a large majority attempting to victimise a smaller minority for a reason which historically has led to wars, genocides and mass killing.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#294

Post by nl »

timbuck2 wrote: post #241
vijaybritto wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah Gujarat 2002 was in Pakistan right/??

And you remember what started it right?? 60 innocent Hindus, mostly women and children - were burned alive by muslim rioting mob.

Is your argument that collective punishment on the basis of religion is reasonable?

I'm sure I can find some atrocity attributable to religion X too. Should everyone from religion X be punished?

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#295

Post by PhasmaFelis »

quantummkv wrote: post #89

> For a government which has attained a historical majority for the second time, just imagine the impact they can have if they focussed this energy on improving economic and human-life indicators instead. The government in its election pitch made this one of the major points that they would execute if they came to power. So please don't be under the assumption that the people that voted don't want this to be implemen…

"Throwing a couple million people in camps is just like technical debt" is a strong contender for Worst Analogy of the Year.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#296

Post by cmonnow »

There are few misconceptions about the recently enacted CAA, that need to be clarified.

Citizenship Amendment Act is a law to fast-track citizenship of 'persecuted religious minorities' in 3 neighboring countries Afghanistan/Pakistan/Bangladesh.

It is a case of positive discrimination (affirmative action for the Americans) towards Hindu/Christian/Sikh/Buddhist/Parsi refugees.

Here is the reddit thread explaining the Act's intricacies and FAQ - https://old.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/e9qhvb/cab_in_...

It does not affect normal citizens of India. It is also NOT a case of negative discrimination against Muslim refugees, like most detractors claim it to be. Official tweet from India's Home Ministry clarifies this - https://twitter.com/PIBHomeAffairs/status/120730412196068556.... The usual waiting period of 11 years stays as it is for them. For minority refugees, it is reduced to 5 years. That's all.

Every country has a database of its citizens. India was lagging far behind in this. Due to enormous population, porous borders and poor living conditions, there are a lot more undocumented immigrants in India than probably any other country on earth. The National Register of Citizens is an attempt to set that right.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#297

Post by cmonnow »

vijaybritto wrote: post #159

This is a monstrous law. The first step is to make millions of people illegal. Next is to give all but Muslims citizenship. Muslims would be stripped off their right to vote. Even hitler would be inspired from such evil plans. (Also from the comments everyone can see how heartless people can be)

There are few misconceptions about the recently enacted CAA, that need to be clarified.

Citizenship Amendment Act is a law to fast-track citizenship of 'persecuted religious minorities' in 3 neighboring countries Afghanistan/Pakistan/Bangladesh.

It is a case of positive discrimination (affirmative action for the Americans) towards Hindu/Christian/Sikh/Buddhist/Parsi refugees.

Here is the reddit thread explaining the Act in simple language - https://old.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/e9qhvb/cab_in_...

It does not affect normal citizens of India. It is also NOT a case of negative discrimination against Muslim refugees, like most detractors claim it to be. Official tweet from India's Home Ministry clarifies this - https://twitter.com/PIBHomeAffairs/status/120730412196068556.... The usual waiting period of 11 years stays as it is for them. For minority refugees, it is reduced to 5 years. That's all.

Every country has a database of its citizens. India was lagging far behind in this. Due to enormous population, porous borders and poor living conditions, there are a lot more undocumented immigrants in India than probably any other country on earth. The National Register of Citizens is an attempt to set that right.

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#298

Post by cmonnow »

dragonsh wrote: post #148
nilsocket wrote: post #92

For all the messy comments against Indian government, To make things clear. CAB (Citizenship Amendment Bill) made for illegal migrants from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh (Three Islamic countries). Who is an illegal migrant: Anybody who came to India after 1971 from these countries. To whom does this rule apply: Illegal migrants who entered India till 2014. What does it say: If one came to India before 2014 and st…

Why you try to repeat the Indian government propaganda. Just make one correction first Bangladesh is a secular nation like India with Muslim majority. This is the wisdom and adherence to secularism of India’s administration during that time (not sure but it was Indira Gandhi at that time, who insisted that Bangladesh should be a secular country like India, after it was freed by Indian military). This was overturned b…

> Bangladesh is a secular nation like India with Muslim majority.

"Bangladesh Constitution establishes Islam as the state religion" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Banglad...

Persecution of religious Minorities in Bangladesh - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Banglad...

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#299

Post by cmonnow »

denzil_correa wrote: post #167
nilsocket wrote: post #92

For all the messy comments against Indian government, To make things clear. CAB (Citizenship Amendment Bill) made for illegal migrants from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh (Three Islamic countries). Who is an illegal migrant: Anybody who came to India after 1971 from these countries. To whom does this rule apply: Illegal migrants who entered India till 2014. What does it say: If one came to India before 2014 and st…

> Pakistan, Non-Muslim population fell from 23% to 3%. This is a straight up propaganda and an outright lie [0]. The population of non-Muslims in Pakistan has always hovered around 3.5%. Census 1951 - 3.4% non-Muslims (oldest) Census 1998 - 3.7% non-Muslims (newest) [0] https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/pakistan-bangladesh-no...

Pakistan includes both West Pakistan (currently Pakistan) and East Pakistan (currently Bangladesh)- based on 1947 partiton, until 1971 when India helped Bangladesh gain independence from Pakistan.

Both 'Pakistans' had a responsibility to protect minorities as per Nehru - Liaqat pact, and they both failed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_discrimination_in_Pa...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Banglad...

Re: India builds detention camps for up to 1.9M people not on citizens register

#300

Post by cmonnow »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #153
nilsocket wrote: post #92

For all the messy comments against Indian government, To make things clear. CAB (Citizenship Amendment Bill) made for illegal migrants from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh (Three Islamic countries). Who is an illegal migrant: Anybody who came to India after 1971 from these countries. To whom does this rule apply: Illegal migrants who entered India till 2014. What does it say: If one came to India before 2014 and st…

I wonder why such a misleading comment has become a top comment. > Why segregation based on religion? Because of persecution of minorities in Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan. Well, we have documented evidence of Shri Lankan Hindu Tamils being prosecuted in Shri Lanka. Why are those Hindus not included? Also if you read this link below, Shia Muslims have been ruled non Muslims. So they r not Muslims acc to Pakistan…

Religious persecution must be done on State-sanctioned grounds (like an official religion or a theocratic state based on Constitution). Any other persecution could just be a particular party's policies e.g. Tomorrow a Buddhist party could come to power in Bangladesh and persecute, say Jews. That does not have Constitutional sanction. Next week a different party might persecute a different religion.

> Sri Lankan Hindu Tamils being prosecuted in Shri Lanka.

And 4 lakh Hindu Tamils were given asylum in India in past 40 years. Proof - https://twitter.com/PIBHomeAffairs/status/120730426394626867... Currently there is no persecution going on there as civil war is over. If in future, they get ill-treated again, a new version of CAB might be brought.

There have been many instances of citizenship granting based on particular cases throughout India's 70 year post-independence history. This CAB is just one of them. It's neither the first, nor last.

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