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Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

mattstoller.substack.com

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Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#51

Post by jacquesm »

DSingularity wrote: post #22
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google also operate in USA. They're based there, in case you didn't notice. > USA has more people in prison than Turkey has. And is substantially larger, and tends to not lock up everybody that might be against dear leader. For now. > Recently journalist Max Blumenthal was jailed on false charges. Definitely not a very good moment in the history of the USA but there are plenty of worse examples and besides the case…

Why not? Turkey survived a coup. We can critique the governments handling all day but can we at least all agree that when a democracy barely survives a coup it ought to institute policies to solidify the rule of law and endurance of its institutions?

That there even was a coup is subject to debate.

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#52

Post by Twixes »

DSingularity wrote: post #22
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google also operate in USA. They're based there, in case you didn't notice. > USA has more people in prison than Turkey has. And is substantially larger, and tends to not lock up everybody that might be against dear leader. For now. > Recently journalist Max Blumenthal was jailed on false charges. Definitely not a very good moment in the history of the USA but there are plenty of worse examples and besides the case…

Why not? Turkey survived a coup. We can critique the governments handling all day but can we at least all agree that when a democracy barely survives a coup it ought to institute policies to solidify the rule of law and endurance of its institutions?

Turkey did not survive a coup, Erdogan survived a "coup"

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#53

Post by banads »

jacquesm wrote: post #50
perlgeek wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > USA has more people in prison than Turkey has. > And is substantially larger, and tends to not lock up everybody that might be against dear leader. For now. Just for the record, the incarceration rate is much higher in USA than in Turkey. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2... lists 737 vs. 97 per 100k population (though I can't find a date there), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co…

Yes, the United States has a problem and it is well documented. But that does not at all begin to tell the whole story about why people are locked up. In the United States it is large numbers of people that got caught up in the so-called war-on-drugs, in Turkey it is because Erdogan has used the failed coup (if there even was one) as a pretext to lock up just about everybody who he felt might be a threat to his regim…

It seems Nixon's and Erdogan's motivations were similar.

The war on drugs was created by the Nixon regime as a way to neutralize threatening political movements like Black Power and the Hippie Peace movement.

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#54

Post by bayindirh »

hartator wrote: post #35
black_puppydog wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH: forcing every country in the world to obey google is no better.

It is. Google hasn’t killed anyone so far that disagrees with them. Plenty of governments does.

No, it’s not. We didn’t give Microsoft a free pass when they did monopolistic moves. Google should not be treated differently.

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#55

Post by DrScientist »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #29
jessaustin wrote: post #14

Google also operate in USA. USA has more people in prison than Turkey has. Recently journalist Max Blumenthal was jailed on false charges.

> Recently journalist Max Blumenthal was jailed on false charges. And released when the accusers were found the be lying. How does this incident put the US in the same league as Turkey?

Let's list some stuff that doesn't look good.

Guantanamo - detention and physiological torture without trial. Hounding of whistler blowers of illegal activity - Snowdon, Manning, Assange etc.

Destabilizing countries around the world - many with democratically elected governments. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...)

Now, of course, this is largely directed at other countries citizens rather than US citizens - so that makes it ok.....

In terms of internal US politics - how do you explain George W Bush as president if the US is a meritocracy and not a oligarchy?

Let's be clear - I'd prefer to live in the US over turkey, but it's not all rosy.

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#56

Post by banads »

bilekas wrote: post #8
jdkee wrote: post #2

Google should be broken up like the Bell system was in the 80s.

Why ? Maybe some proper regulation written by people who know what they're talking about would be a better start no ? The nuclear option of : 'Oh break them up, they're out of control' is such a fallacy. Maybe if lawmakers were clued in on what large companies like Facebook, Google actually did, they might just set better rules.

Fair point, but, I think we all can agree "proper regulation written by people who know what they're talking about" is extremely unlikely to happen.

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#57

Post by dahfizz »

black_puppydog wrote: post #19
seunosewa wrote: post #17

The article was masterfully framed to make us feel outraged by Google’s exercise of its right to chose where it does business. When Google pulls out of a country, it loses a lot, and so does the country. This is a strong incentive for both parties to be reasonable. Forcing Google to obey every government in the world doesn’t seem fair; many countries have unreasonable or evil laws.

OTOH: forcing every country in the world to obey google is no better.

Google doesn't have armies and police forces. It can't "force" anyone to do anything, unlike governments.

Deciding not to provide its services is not a use of force from google.

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#58

Post by dahfizz »

bayindirh wrote: post #54
hartator wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is. Google hasn’t killed anyone so far that disagrees with them. Plenty of governments does.

No, it’s not. We didn’t give Microsoft a free pass when they did monopolistic moves. Google should not be treated differently.

You're moving the goalposts. The comment above yours says (and quite rightly) that Google does not have the power of a government and shouldn't be considered as such. And your response is "but Microsoft!".

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#59

Post by Kalium »

qtplatypus wrote: post #33

I’ve just read the Reuters story that is linked. The Turkish government said that they were not legally permitted to sell phones with the current contract; so Google stopped selling an illegal product until they could resolve the issue. If Google kept selling the phones without resolving the issue then they would be subject to fines. How is complying with local laws a Dangerous Foreign Policy act?

> “We’ve informed our business partners that we will not be able to work with them on new Android phones to be released for the Turkish market,” the Google statement said.

The article also says that Google won't be working with their business partners on new phones. The article spins this as demanding to "work with" Turkey, which strikes me as an overstatement in service of the argument that Google is discriminating against smaller countries.

The author does seem to believe that Google should be compelled to do a maximum amount of business in every possible market until the State Department steps in. It's the authors contention that doing less than this is a Dangerous Foreign Policy Act.

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#60

Post by NicoJuicy »

mcv wrote: post #47
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google also operate in USA. They're based there, in case you didn't notice. > USA has more people in prison than Turkey has. And is substantially larger, and tends to not lock up everybody that might be against dear leader. For now. > Recently journalist Max Blumenthal was jailed on false charges. Definitely not a very good moment in the history of the USA but there are plenty of worse examples and besides the case…

The US is larger than Turkey, but that's irrelevant to the argument; the US locks up a larger percentage of its population than practically any other country on Earth. The US has more people in prison than China , which has 4 times the population. I'm not denying there's a lot wrong in Turkey, but the US isn't all freedom and democracy either.

Only China knows how many people are in prison/education.

Same as business revenue, which is mostly fake for the outside world.

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