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United States to fund gun-violence research after 20-year freeze

nature.com

341–350 of 373 posts

Re: United States to fund gun-violence research after 20-year freeze

#341
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a terrible defensive choice. It is unlikely to be available if needed, and doesn't work well at short-moderate range. Longer ranges are too far for credible self defense. Also, the lethality is limited; you're going to need to get lucky to stop someone from stabbing the fuck out of you. I did talk about range. I did talk about deterrence rather than stopping power. > There are a whole lot of sketchy people…

> I grew up in a rural area, I own rural property and I will be back for Christmas. I think you have some odd ideas about why people live in rural areas. I have odd ideas about the behavior of itinerants who pass through rural areas. It's amazing the amount of crime you can have when law enforcement effectively doesn't exist. > Do you need an assault rifle (I didn't mention semi-auto rifles) to defend against meth he…

> So that right there is enough to question the efficacy of what you suggest (gun control as a mechanism to prevent suicide).

It isn't really, because we have lots of other evidence to show that reducing access to means and methods is useful.

Mann JJ et al(2005), "Authors identified 6 studies that have demonstrated a decrease in firearms-related suicides after introduction of firearm control legislation, two of which also proved a positive effect on overall suicide rates without substitution of methods (in Canada and the USA"

Lambert MT, Silva PS(1998) "This review concludes that reducing the availability and accessibility of firearms appears to decrease firearms-related suicide rates without this leading to substitution of means of suicide"

There are others.

But let's assume that method substitution does happen immediately: that's still a good thing, because it means that fewer people will die.

"While firearms are used in less than six percent of suicide attempts, over half of suicide deaths are with firearms." - Miller M, Azrael D, Barber C. Suicide mortality in the United States: the importance of attending to method in understanding population-level disparities in the burden of suicide. Annual Review of Public Health. 2012;33:393–408.

Re: United States to fund gun-violence research after 20-year freeze

#342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None that you merely googled for. I'm looking for content that actually supports your specific claim. Ok. How do you want me to look for the data? > 1) a survey on firearms-related deaths that doesn't even look at in-home use or defensive vs offensive use. It's not just a survey. > 2) A review of 26-year-old death certificates. Did you read this part? "Blacks, persons less than 35 years of age or older than age 100…

How do you want me to look for the data? Thank you for acknowledging that you didn't have actual data you were basing that claim on in the first place.

Oh I did, its just I never printed it out. It's just so easy to find evidence that gun ownership correlates with more gun deaths and injuries for the owner that I don't really need to save it anywhere.

Often when I'm google searching its because I remember the title of something or the general concept. Its something lots of young people do these days rather than printing articles out to scrapbook or saving them to desktop or whatever it is old people do.

Let me know what evidence would satisfy you that owning a gun increases the chance of dying via gun. Cheers.

Re: United States to fund gun-violence research after 20-year freeze

#343
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have different definitions of mass shooters. I assume you advocate strongly, with great investments of time, energy, and money, to alleviate the ones I would say you're including erroneously, yes?

Slick reply, but a mocking, obsequious attempt to brush the definitions aside changes nothing: the parent comment is correct. > We have different definitions of mass shooters. You're almost certainly talking about high profile shooting incidents with broad media coverage, that drive what is essentially a moral panic. Parent comment is referring to incidents where 3+ people get shot, which often do not make the nation…

You're mistaken, as I was simply trying to draw attention to the fact that the motivations, and therefore salves, for a) a mass shooter who enters a soft target and kills strangers indiscriminately, and b) a "mass shooter" who knows his target and catches innocents in the crossfire, differ substantially.

You group the two in order to dilute the focus of anti-gun violence advocacy, but you're given away by how little you care about instances of the latter definition otherwise. If "mental healthcare" is your panacea, it won't help non-suicide handgun violence. You know that, and I know that, and it's then perplexing why you would think we wouldn't notice.

Re: United States to fund gun-violence research after 20-year freeze

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/554/570/#tab-opi... Ctrl-F "well-regulated"

That's not at all what the GP was saying.

>Finally, the adjective “well-regulated” implies nothing more than the imposition of proper discipline and training.

It's pretty close...

Re: United States to fund gun-violence research after 20-year freeze

#345
post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Winning is not about body counts; it's about reaching your strategic objectives.

What strategic objective do you see american gun owners achieving against the american military?

Preserving their rights.

Re: United States to fund gun-violence research after 20-year freeze

#346
post #289
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone reading along at home: Gun rights do not derive from the Constitution, they derive from the natural right of a being to protect itself. The second amendment is codifed there to attempt to limit the power of the government to take away that right. Despite what you may have been told it is not a collective right (there's no such thing), it is an individual right. Just like every other right enumerated in the…

But many people (including myself) don't believe in the concept of "natural rights". I accept that rights only exist if they are granted to you and protected under law. Therefore, my rights to own guns is in fact derived from the Constitution.

While you're certainly welcome to that opinion, it's incompatible with the origins and philosophy of the US Constitution at the very least. Your rights still exist even if someone hasn't told you they do.

Re: United States to fund gun-violence research after 20-year freeze

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Medium article covers why using that correlation to assume causation is a problem, using other experimental variables that were shown to have a correlation with homicides.

No it doesn't. Because there are other studies that back up the causal relationship. He's taken one that shows a clear correlation and explained why that's not enough to craft policy from, and that's true. But studies that show cross time correlation between homicide and gun ownership also exist. It might not be the only cause, but it being a cause makes sense: another poster showed a news story of a man who had kill…

> But studies that show cross time correlation between homicide and gun ownership also exist.

So do you believe we could apply that criteria with all of the other correlated variables with firearm homicide from the AJPH article, concluding that they cause firearm homicide?

Do you suppose those intruders would have preferred being cut to death? Why or why not?

Re: United States to fund gun-violence research after 20-year freeze

#348
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ok! I think you're considerably overestimating the likelihood of needing to defend yourself with the type of gun you think you need. OK. I think you heavily overestimate your own level of knowledge and understanding on this topic. > A bolt action 22 is enough for pretty much anyone, This is a terrible defensive choice. It is unlikely to be available if needed, and doesn't work well at short-moderate range. Longer r…

> This is a terrible defensive choice. It is unlikely to be available if needed, and doesn't work well at short-moderate range. Longer ranges are too far for credible self defense. Also, the lethality is limited; you're going to need to get lucky to stop someone from stabbing the fuck out of you. I did talk about range. I did talk about deterrence rather than stopping power. > There are a whole lot of sketchy people…

> OK. I think you heavily overestimate your own level of knowledge and understanding on this topic.

This comment of yours is just another example of that when you ask "Do you need an assault rifle (I didn't mention semi-auto rifles) to defend against meth heads with knives?"

Is it your understanding that any of the firearms being discussed are assault rifles? That's pretty damning.

Re: United States to fund gun-violence research after 20-year freeze

#349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uh, ... wow. "Luckily?" That is what one would say if they were grateful for the deaths, isn't it? Isn't it just a bonus that it happens to The Other?

Considering my argument has been about attempting to reduce gun deaths you might want to reconsider that assumption. However, lucky for you, I'm pretty sure that assumption would make it easier for you to dismiss my argument. I say lucky for you, but what I really mean to say is it'd be bad if you did that. Its a little turn of phrase that isn't literal and which is probably lost via text. Lets reduce gun deaths. The…

> Lets reduce gun deaths. They are tragic and often unnecessary.

And we can do that by addressing the motivations behind them through social programs.

> Also, fear of The Other,

Technically, what was demonstrated in that comment was closer to hatred than just fear. There's more than enough gun nuts out there who wish that gun owners would shoot themselves.

Re: United States to fund gun-violence research after 20-year freeze

#350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None that you merely googled for. I'm looking for content that actually supports your specific claim. Ok. How do you want me to look for the data? > 1) a survey on firearms-related deaths that doesn't even look at in-home use or defensive vs offensive use. It's not just a survey. > 2) A review of 26-year-old death certificates. Did you read this part? "Blacks, persons less than 35 years of age or older than age 100…

How do you want me to look for the data? Thank you for acknowledging that you didn't have actual data you were basing that claim on in the first place.

What? You won't take a pinky swear as proof?

Prepare for some kind of snarky defense of a flawed "correlation is causation" argument.

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