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Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

mattstoller.substack.com

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Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#41

Post by bayindirh »

atlasunshrugged wrote: post #4

I'm generally pro competition but I feel like there's probably more to this story (just remembering how eBay also left Turkey). Aren't there some issues with how the data is supposed to be stored in Turkey (a place where many people including journalists are jailed and does not rank highly as a Democratic country) that would also make Google more likely to just up and leave or outright negotiate with the government o…

> just remembering how eBay also left Turkey

eBay didn't leave Turkey. They've bought http://www.gittigidiyor.com and continuing to operate.

They're still here, just under a different brand. They've bought their fiercest local competitor.

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#42

Post by eeZah7Ux »

jupp0r wrote: post #27
DSingularity wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Turkey survived a coup. We can critique the governments handling all day but can we at least all agree that when a democracy barely survives a coup it ought to institute policies to solidify the rule of law and endurance of its institutions?

Your premise of democracy is wrong. Turkey is an authoritarian dictatorship at this point.

...and the US is shockingly close to being one.

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#43

Post by matthewdgreen »

tssva wrote: post #38
matthewdgreen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is perfectly capable of untying their search from Android via a software update, because that’s the remedy they already developed and use in Russia. Turkey is asking them to turn on the same capability. Google is saying they could but that they won’t, because Turkey isn’t a big enough country to make them. And yes, if Google is breaking US and international anti-trust laws, “forcing” people to do things is gen…

Or perhaps the Russian market was large enough that the return on continued investment in it despite the required changes justified remaining in it and the Turkish market isn't large enough to justify continuing to invest in it.

What investment? Google already develops Android, they already developed the “untying” feature for Russia. What’s left? Turkish Localization? I find it hard to believe that even a 50% mobile search share in Turkey won’t pay those incremental costs.

I find it much more believable that this is a simple pressure play.

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#44

Post by UserIsUnused »

rimliu wrote: post #26
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google also operate in USA. They're based there, in case you didn't notice. > USA has more people in prison than Turkey has. And is substantially larger, and tends to not lock up everybody that might be against dear leader. For now. > Recently journalist Max Blumenthal was jailed on false charges. Definitely not a very good moment in the history of the USA but there are plenty of worse examples and besides the case…

It's amusing how for many things you "cannot compare X and US in this way" for whatever reason. Seems that the US is beyond any comparison. Go to this page, sort by the number of incarcerations per 100,000 population and enjoy the interesting picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...

incarceration because war of drugs is fundamentally different from incarceration because I don't like my dear leader.

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#45

Post by huffmsa »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #34
huffmsa wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is Google supposed to be forced to make its phones available in Turkey Well yes, because free trade, globalization, equality and other buzzwords. /s The reality is that historical big companies have always sparred with nation-states. Usually the EIC, but occasionally other firms. They went roughly 50/50. "Won" in China. Lost in America. OPEC said "no oil for you" and it worked. And no one invaded or otherwise compe…

> OPEC said "no oil for you" and it worked. And no one invaded or otherwise compelled them to sell oil to people they didn't like. This is like world history as told by Dreamworks.

They didn't invade immediately.

And yes, it ultimately drove the west to start developing it's own oil resources and become less reliant on OPEC products, but that worked in the wests favor, as you would expect internal development of a Googledroid replacement to go for Turkey. Seems to be going okay for China.

And the EIC ultimately lost influence in China and India and was no more. So it might be in a company's best interest to play nice with nation-states

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#46

Post by wongarsu »

UserIsUnused wrote: post #44
rimliu wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amusing how for many things you "cannot compare X and US in this way" for whatever reason. Seems that the US is beyond any comparison. Go to this page, sort by the number of incarcerations per 100,000 population and enjoy the interesting picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...

incarceration because war of drugs is fundamentally different from incarceration because I don't like my dear leader.

"One of Richard Nixon's top advisers and a key figure in the Watergate scandal said the war on drugs was created as a political tool to fight blacks and hippies" [1]

It's not that different.

1: https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-...

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#47

Post by mcv »

jacquesm wrote: post #18
jessaustin wrote: post #14

Google also operate in USA. USA has more people in prison than Turkey has. Recently journalist Max Blumenthal was jailed on false charges.

> Google also operate in USA. They're based there, in case you didn't notice. > USA has more people in prison than Turkey has. And is substantially larger, and tends to not lock up everybody that might be against dear leader. For now. > Recently journalist Max Blumenthal was jailed on false charges. Definitely not a very good moment in the history of the USA but there are plenty of worse examples and besides the case…

The US is larger than Turkey, but that's irrelevant to the argument; the US locks up a larger percentage of its population than practically any other country on Earth. The US has more people in prison than China, which has 4 times the population.

I'm not denying there's a lot wrong in Turkey, but the US isn't all freedom and democracy either.

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#48

Post by dyeje »

DSingularity wrote: post #22
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google also operate in USA. They're based there, in case you didn't notice. > USA has more people in prison than Turkey has. And is substantially larger, and tends to not lock up everybody that might be against dear leader. For now. > Recently journalist Max Blumenthal was jailed on false charges. Definitely not a very good moment in the history of the USA but there are plenty of worse examples and besides the case…

Why not? Turkey survived a coup. We can critique the governments handling all day but can we at least all agree that when a democracy barely survives a coup it ought to institute policies to solidify the rule of law and endurance of its institutions?

A coup that many think was orchestrated by Erdogan so he could clean house.

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#49

Post by lstroud »

mcv wrote: post #47
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google also operate in USA. They're based there, in case you didn't notice. > USA has more people in prison than Turkey has. And is substantially larger, and tends to not lock up everybody that might be against dear leader. For now. > Recently journalist Max Blumenthal was jailed on false charges. Definitely not a very good moment in the history of the USA but there are plenty of worse examples and besides the case…

The US is larger than Turkey, but that's irrelevant to the argument; the US locks up a larger percentage of its population than practically any other country on Earth. The US has more people in prison than China , which has 4 times the population. I'm not denying there's a lot wrong in Turkey, but the US isn't all freedom and democracy either.

Are you counting re-education camps and capital punishments? Pretty sure China will surpass most of the rest combined.

Re: Google's Monopoly-Based Foreign Policy

#50

Post by jacquesm »

perlgeek wrote: post #36
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google also operate in USA. They're based there, in case you didn't notice. > USA has more people in prison than Turkey has. And is substantially larger, and tends to not lock up everybody that might be against dear leader. For now. > Recently journalist Max Blumenthal was jailed on false charges. Definitely not a very good moment in the history of the USA but there are plenty of worse examples and besides the case…

> > USA has more people in prison than Turkey has. > And is substantially larger, and tends to not lock up everybody that might be against dear leader. For now. Just for the record, the incarceration rate is much higher in USA than in Turkey. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/uk/06/prisons/html/nn2... lists 737 vs. 97 per 100k population (though I can't find a date there), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co…

Yes, the United States has a problem and it is well documented. But that does not at all begin to tell the whole story about why people are locked up.

In the United States it is large numbers of people that got caught up in the so-called war-on-drugs, in Turkey it is because Erdogan has used the failed coup (if there even was one) as a pretext to lock up just about everybody who he felt might be a threat to his regime.

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