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Google claims copyright on employee side projects

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Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#151
post #116

"usbmuxd was rejected without an explanation. My follow-up email asking for clarification was ignored." Isn't it funny that Google employees themselves at least sometimes can taste how other Google "products" feel when their accounts are banned, deleted and there is zero ways to appeal such decisions?

I think most Google employees are aware of that problem and wish there was a better support structure in place. They aren't paid 300k per year to deal with some random account request though, they are paid to write systems that deal with one billion accounts, so there is not much opportunity there. Until the tech giants hire massive support workforces, this isn't something engineers can do anything about.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#152
post #99
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That doesn't mean you own the work you produce Of course not, it does however eliminate a host of problems resulting from using company equipment including additional complications from efforts you would otherwise own except for using company equipment, or the extraordinarly reduced right to privacy you have on company equipment. Using separate equipment is also good, but isn't always realistic particularly if your…

I would be very surprised if the company didnt want control over the machine, even from a securoty point of view, the idea of using your own hardward for your job is just a red flag. Don't do it. Also, dont use anything related to work for anything other than work.. It's a tool for the job. Leave it at that.

>the idea of using your own hardward for your job is just a red flag.

It's also extremely common. How many people these days carry separate work and personal phones, for example? (Some do, of course, but I'm pretty sure they're the exceptions.) And, especially anyone who travels a lot probably uses one laptop a lot of the time too.

Is this "best practice"? Probably not. But it's convenient and it's usually not an issue. (Though I fully agree that, if you know something is a potentially borderline issue, it makes sense to wall personal and work off more completely.)

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#153

> Oh, please. It's standard industry practice for companies to claim ownership of everything a software engineer comes up with, even "on their own time". In the US. Problem is the US is infecting the rest of the world too, especially through subsidiaries which basically just translate from English the 'standard' employment contract. I had to refuse employment in Romania since the clauses were so broad and basically i…

> If the employer owns your brain 24h/day maybe the hourly rate your are getting is not such a great deal. If you're a software engineer for Google, it's a pretty good hourly rate.

It’s not just a claim on some pseudo-equivalence with respect to hourly rate. It’s a claim on the possible future earnings resulting from the activity.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the employer owns your brain 24h/day maybe the hourly rate your are getting is not such a great deal. If you're a software engineer for Google, it's a pretty good hourly rate.

Not if they claim ownership on your side projects.

While I definitely wouldn't claim that the Google software engineer compensation package is enough to buy everyone's side projects---obviously, because some people consider theirs priceless---I suspect it's enough for a lot of engineers to be willing to sign that away (especially given that there is a process for having the company explicitly relinquish their copyright claim back to the creator).

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#155
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm from my experience (~10 years in the industry). I've never even heard of this practice until I applied to Google. None of the EU companies I've worked at before had anything like this. None of the EU companies I've worked at since had anything like this. It's US imperialism, nothing less.

I think you make an excellent point, in particular regarding the fact that this is a US-based policy. US copyright law is extremely friendly to individual creators at the expense of corporations. It makes corporations bend over backwards to avoid getting into a messy legal dispute with somebody that they've employed to create for them. This policy is so broad because if an individual Google employee were to try and c…

> US copyright law is extremely friendly to individual creators at the expense of corporations.

You must be joking! Yes, the "Work made for hire" requirements are convoluted, but most of the complexity applies only to independent contractors anyways. I have never heard of a US corporation be in danger because of an employee claiming copyright, yet people's personal projects and own companies constantly get screwed by former employers.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#157
post #114

> Oh, please. It's standard industry practice for companies to claim ownership of everything a software engineer comes up with, even "on their own time". In the US. Problem is the US is infecting the rest of the world too, especially through subsidiaries which basically just translate from English the 'standard' employment contract. I had to refuse employment in Romania since the clauses were so broad and basically i…

Can confirm from my experience (~10 years in the industry). I've never even heard of this practice until I applied to Google. None of the EU companies I've worked at before had anything like this. None of the EU companies I've worked at since had anything like this. It's US imperialism, nothing less.

have never seen this clause in canada and it seems like something that would not be upheld in the courts either (cf. non compete clauses)

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#158
post #95

Oh, please. It's standard industry practice for companies to claim ownership of everything a software engineer comes up with, even "on their own time". The problem is it's extremely difficult to say, figure out when someone might have invented some super clever idea which can be pantented "on their own time". This was true when I worked for MIT, VA Linux, IBM, and Google. At VA Linux it was the VC's which insisted on…

Because it's standard industry practice, that's OK then ? Argumentum ad populum.

You struck a good deal because of your ext4 maintainership and unique resume ? That's survivorship bias.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#160
post #40

Does society accept this behaviour outside tech? Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time. Or that the big farm would ask for a piece of those carrots grown in the back yard.

"Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time." Not a Michelin restaurant, but apparently Outback Steakhouse makes that exact claim. "Inventions, Ideas, Processes, and Designs. All inventions, ideas, recipes, processes, programs, software, and designs ...conceived or made by Employee during the course of Employee’s employment with the Employer (whether or…

That's slavery with extra steps...
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